Beliefs

[Spineyman]

Yeah, I was made to hear it every Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, revival, camp meeting, bible school, etc. etc. etc. for nearly two decades of my life. I heard and read plenty enough of it. More than enough to realize that half of it just made no rational sense, and that a lot of it contradicted itself.

What you saw was fallen man trying to do what is expected of him, without fully succeeding. Maybe you should look to Jesus the author and finisher of our faith. Men will fail you every time but Jesus will not. As long as we are still here on this earth we are sinners and fallible. So again I ask you to take your eyes of of sinful man and place them on the Only One who is able to save! Jesus Christ the Righteous.

 

[660griz]

What you saw was fallen man trying to do what is expected of him, without fully succeeding. Maybe you should look to Jesus the author and finisher of our faith. Men will fail you every time but Jesus will not. As long as we are still here on this earth we are sinners and fallible. So again I ask you to take your eyes of of sinful man and place them on the Only One who is able to save! Jesus Christ the Righteous.

What about the Old Testatment God? You love that one too or just the kindler, gentler Jesus of the New Testament?
Do you pick one to believe in? Both?

 

[bullethead]

What about the Old Testatment God? You love that one too or just the kindler, gentler Jesus of the New Testament?
Do you pick one to believe in? Both?

BiPolar

 

[j_seph]

What about the Old Testatment God? You love that one too or just the kindler, gentler Jesus of the New Testament?
Do you pick one to believe in? Both?

Do you have children? Are you nice to them all the time or are you mean all the time or does it depend on their actions and what they do? Are you the old testament daddy or the new testament daddy or are you a combination of both to complete daddy's bible?

 

[bullethead]

Do you have children? Are you nice to them all the time or are you mean all the time or does it depend on their actions and what they do? Are you the old testament daddy or the new testament daddy or are you a combination of both to complete daddy's bible?

Are you putting 660griz on the same level as your God?

One minute a believer is telling us that their god is spiritual and above, beyond, greater than human capabilities and emotions....then in the next breath this god acts, thinks, reacts, is moody and is the same as humans.

What it shows is a flaw in the writings. These authors, despite their best efforts, could not hide the fact that the god they wanted to sell was limited to the constraints of their own minds and the ink they put on paper. Their human minds and qualities limited their gods abilities. No god was able to transcend those human limitations and exactly why no god exists as described in the writings.

 

[660griz]

Do you have children? Are you nice to them all the time or are you mean all the time or does it depend on their actions and what they do? Are you the old testament daddy or the new testament daddy or are you a combination of both to complete daddy's bible?

Relative to God, I am nice ALL the time. No matter their actions, I would not torture them forever. Submit them as sex slaves, bash their heads against rocks, have them mauled by bears for poking fun at a bald guy...and the list goes on.
Fine. Don't answer the question.

 

[j_seph]

Relative to God, I am nice ALL the time. No matter their actions, I would not torture them forever. Submit them as sex slaves, bash their heads against rocks, have them mauled by bears for poking fun at a bald guy...and the list goes on.
Fine. Don't answer the question.

So if your children do wrong you give em high 5's, pat on the back, good job carry on? God is the father, we were made in his image. It was never intended for us to be bad sinful people. Sometimes drastic measure must be taken to get the intended results. We send folks to death row, use tax payer money to house them, then to kill them. For what purpose are we killing them? Is it to teach them a lesson so they do not do it again (they dead so that is not the reason). Is it so the victim can have relief in them being dead, not just locked up in prison somewhere? I would say it is because they have done crimes that are not tolerated, there is no future for many of them to productive members of society therefore remove them from it and maybe, just maybe the prison and the world will be a better place.

Are you putting 660griz on the same level as your God?
Not even close
One minute a believer is telling us that their god is spiritual and above, beyond, greater than human capabilities and emotions....then in the next breath this god acts, thinks, reacts, is moody and is the same as humans.
I am saying my God can and will punish and yet he can still have mercy. We sin, we can get forgiveness but there is a price to pay (consequences). As a children of God he is our Father.
What it shows is a flaw in the writings. These authors, despite their best efforts, could not hide the fact that the god they wanted to sell was limited to the constraints of their own minds and the ink they put on paper. Their human minds and qualities limited their gods abilities. No god was able to transcend those human limitations and exactly why no god exists as described in the writings.
My God has no constraints nor limits. When you see God working in your life, answering prayers in others lives that you have specifically prayed for, when there is no rhyme nor reason that it should be working out to the good as it is, that is when you see the evidence you seek. I have a stepson that was so far up his dads rear that he had no use for his mom. His dad manipulated him, brainwashed him that his mother was nothing. Please explain how he is coming around to seeing just the opposite? He is never around to see nor learn just the opposite with his own eyes. Please explain how prayers have went out for his dad, even though we do not like him we still pray for him as well. Prayers that he either get right, or get out of the picture. Guess what? The dads world is turning upside down right now, he has lost control and the stepson is coming around without us interfering or pushing him to.

 

[Brother David]

Beliefs regarding what?
I have made myself consistently clear about beliefs in god(s).

I just do not know what, who, or if there is a god(s).
I believe that if there is, itbis too complicated for me to understand, too complex for it to care and too unknowable for me to pretend to try.

So by your very definition your Agnostic not Athesist ?

 

[660griz]

So if your children do wrong you give em high 5's, pat on the back, good job carry on?

Didn't say that. I said, "Relative to GOD, I am nice." If they are bad, their punishment matches the crime.
If they curse me, I would not put them to death.
Leviticus 20:9

For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.​

I am not sure I can be any clearer.

 

[bullethead]

My God has no constraints nor limits. When you see God working in your life, answering prayers in others lives that you have specifically prayed for, when there is no rhyme nor reason that it should be working out to the good as it is, that is when you see the evidence you seek. I have a stepson that was so far up his dads rear that he had no use for his mom. His dad manipulated him, brainwashed him that his mother was nothing. Please explain how he is coming around to seeing just the opposite? He is never around to see nor learn just the opposite with his own eyes. Please explain how prayers have went out for his dad, even though we do not like him we still pray for him as well. Prayers that he either get right, or get out of the picture. Guess what? The dads world is turning upside down right now, he has lost control and the stepson is coming around without us interfering or pushing him to.

It's called growing up. It is life. It happens constantly.
Explain how those same circumstances happen each and every day all over the country and world to just about every family, to believers and non believers alike?

 

[bullethead]

So by your very definition your Agnostic not Athesist ?

David, I have said that I am agnostic at least a half thousand times over many years in here, in many threads, with many posts. I have EXPLAINED IN GREAT DETAILS what, why and how I have come to my beliefs and non beliefs.
If you are FINALLY comprehending it now....I can see why conversations with you go the way that they do.

 

[660griz]

The dads world is turning upside down right now, he has lost control and the stepson is coming around without us interfering or pushing him to.

Pretty much the same situation with me and my stepson. No God or prayers needed in my case. He is a responsible, decent, respectful adult now. I will take the credit, thanks. Food on the table, roof over head, yep, all me.

 

[j_seph]

Didn't say that. I said, "Relative to GOD, I am nice." If they are bad, their punishment matches the crime.
If they curse me, I would not put them to death.
Leviticus 20:9

For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.​

I am not sure I can be any clearer.

Rebellion against one’s parents is direct rebellion against God. The 5th Command is to honor one’s father and mother (Exodus 20:12). Parents are a God-ordained authority. Disobedience to parents is disobedience to God (Ephesians 6:1-3). Throughout the Bible, there are only a handful of things we are told to fear: God (Proverbs 1:7) and parents (Leviticus 19:3) are among them.

The law requiring rebellious children to be stoned to death was meant for extreme cases to protect God’s people. It would have been heartbreaking for parents to bear the responsibility of initiating such severe measures. However, the Bible never records this law being enforced.

For everyone who drives 10mph over the speed limit shall surely be put to death.
Would you still drive 75 in a 65? Probably not because you know the punishment would be death. Like the fella who made his daughter walk 5 miles to school because she got kicked off the bus for bullying. Some folks think he went overboard, but I bet she learns her lesson. Had she had fear of consequences for her actions and knew she would have to walk, odds are she would not have gotten kicked off the bus to start with. These folks keep stealing, doing drugs over and over in and out of jail. What ya wanna bet that if they were told, you steal something you will be put to death that they would probably quit it. If they did not then they loved stealing more than their life, they became a menace to society, put to death and the community just became a better place. Man could not uphold all the laws given them because of their sinful nature. However through Grace we have forgiveness.

 

[j_seph]

Pretty much the same situation with me and my stepson. No God or prayers needed in my case. He is a responsible, decent, respectful adult now. I will take the credit, thanks. Food on the table, roof over head, yep, all me.

So your stepson for the most part hated your wife (his mom). He believed she was a crazy evil woman? How did he decide she wasn't if he was never around, never seen her nor talked to her, and lived 20 miles away?

 

[bullethead]

Rebellion against one’s parents is direct rebellion against God. The 5th Command is to honor one’s father and mother (Exodus 20:12). Parents are a God-ordained authority. Disobedience to parents is disobedience to God (Ephesians 6:1-3). Throughout the Bible, there are only a handful of things we are told to fear: God (Proverbs 1:7) and parents (Leviticus 19:3) are among them.

The law requiring rebellious children to be stoned to death was meant for extreme cases to protect God’s people. It would have been heartbreaking for parents to bear the responsibility of initiating such severe measures. However, the Bible never records this law being enforced.

For everyone who drives 10mph over the speed limit shall surely be put to death.
Would you still drive 75 in a 65? Probably not because you know the punishment would be death. Like the fella who made his daughter walk 5 miles to school because she got kicked off the bus for bullying. Some folks think he went overboard, but I bet she learns her lesson. Had she had fear of consequences for her actions and knew she would have to walk, odds are she would not have gotten kicked off the bus to start with. These folks keep stealing, doing drugs over and over in and out of jail. What ya wanna bet that if they were told, you steal something you will be put to death that they would probably quit it. If they did not then they loved stealing more than their life, they became a menace to society, put to death and the community just became a better place. Man could not uphold all the laws given them because of their sinful nature. However through Grace we have forgiveness.

So you say the law was meant for extreme cases...
What exactly is the limit? Where is the cut off?
What can a child do to be rebellious and not get stoned to death, but push it just a little more to get the rocks?

 

[bullethead]

So your stepson for the most part hated your wife (his mom). He believed she was a crazy evil woman? How did he decide she wasn't if he was never around, never seen her nor talked to her, and lived 20 miles away?

Kids are smart. Yes, influence from one parent trying to paint the other parent in a bad way certainly has an effect. It does create a bias by the child against a parent when that is all that they hear. But then that parent who is always talking smack does something that allows the child to question the parent's intentions and integrity...and then pieces of the overall puzzle add up to the point where the child realizes that the parent who was constantly saying negative things about the other parent was full of it.
It allows the child to step back, rethink their preconceived notions due to influence not experience, and look at things in a different way.

 

[WaltL1]

So your stepson for the most part hated your wife (his mom). He believed she was a crazy evil woman? How did he decide she wasn't if he was never around, never seen her nor talked to her, and lived 20 miles away?

Its called maturing. Happens every day.
Not seeing her, not talking to her and living 20 miles away was probably the catalyst that caused him to figure it out and mature on his own.

 

[Spineyman]

What about the Old Testatment God? You love that one too or just the kindler, gentler Jesus of the New Testament?
Do you pick one to believe in? Both?

Same God, different Covenant. I also have news for you too. Jesus is not the meeker gentler God. It is just through the shed blood of Jesus that we enter the New Covenant.

 

[j_seph]

Its called maturing. Happens every day.
Not seeing her, not talking to her and living 20 miles away was probably the catalyst that caused him to figure it out and mature on his own.

But where is the evidence that he needed or would have needed to see his mom different? If he is not around then there is no evidence to allow him to make that call. The only evidence is to see his dad in a different light, not the evidence to see his mom is no different than what he knows to be fact in his little world.

 

[NCHillbilly]

So if your children do wrong you give em high 5's, pat on the back, good job carry on? God is the father, we were made in his image. It was never intended for us to be bad sinful people. Sometimes drastic measure must be taken to get the intended results. We send folks to death row, use tax payer money to house them, then to kill them. For what purpose are we killing them? Is it to teach them a lesson so they do not do it again (they dead so that is not the reason). Is it so the victim can have relief in them being dead, not just locked up in prison somewhere? I would say it is because they have done crimes that are not tolerated, there is no future for many of them to productive members of society therefore remove them from it and maybe, just maybe the prison and the world will be a better place.

I wouldn't drown all my children because they didn't listen to me.