CFE 223 and .308

[The Rodney]

I’m new to reloading… All my gear got in last week and I made a few loads for my 308. As this was the only powder available this is what I bought and three kinds of 168 grain bullets. Sierra TMK, Hornady SST, and Hornady Match BTHP.
I’ve done some reading and it seems… CFE 223 on a 90° day in the sun is asking for some overpressure LOL… Only blew out one primer but I stoped shooting a particular load after two rounds in a row made the bolt hard to open. Anyhow, just wondering if anyone had any experience with this powder and .308. I’m shooting a Howa 1500, 20 inch barrel, 1:10.
New to reloading but not new to shooting I’ve been doing that 35 years and 4 inch groups at 100 yards seems a little ridiculous. Shooting 2 1/2 and 3 inch groups with factory loads. I installed the scope myself so I know that’s up to snuff so I checked the action screws, don’t know why I didn’t do that before, and they were both around 20 pounds I tightened the front to 30 and the rear to 50. Inch pounds of course. Groups did tighten up a little bit but I think I’m gonna go up to 65 inch pounds and see if the groups get tighter with factory loads. Anyone shoot a Howa? No I’m not blaming the gun (though 20 inch pounds on action screws is just asking for trouble) I just wanna make sure I’ve eliminated all the other possibilities so I can freely blame myself. It’s been along time since I got serious trigger time with a high-powered rifle so I know I have to work on me. These rifles are reputed to shoot very well certainly MOA, In fact, I’m more than capable of MOA at 100 yards so I’m perplexed.

 

[Jester896]

If your blowing primers and the bolt is hard to lift your load it too hot.

Would you care to share your load? 46.6-49.0gr is Hodgdon's info on a Sierra 168gr HPBT. I imagine that will be close for the 168gr TMK too.

throw those 3 pieces of brass away

do you have a loading manual for either of those?

 

[Nimrod71]

I shoot Howa rifles and my current deer rifle is a Howa 308. I shoot Sierra 150 gr. Pro Hunters over IMR 4895 most of the time. For a change I will use IMR 4064 or BL-C2. My rifle has a 22 inch barrel and at 100 yds. it will put 5 shots inside a quarter size circle. As for torque, I pull both front and back to 55 lbs. on a Hogue stock. I'm really impressed with the Howa rifles.

 

[The Rodney]

Loading manual yes, Lee and the Sierra and Hornady app.
45gr CFE 223 Winchester primer.
COAL 2.75
I think I sat too deep. Hot day at the range about 88. Thanks for the tip on the brass. Throw the brass away that blew primer what about the ones where it was hard to open? Minor blemish on the face.

 

[The Rodney]

I have the Hogue stock as well. I may do the 55 on each as well.

 

[The Rodney]

Ah I see ypu said throw all that brass away..... will do. Just surprised I had pressure issues with 45 gr and I have been very careful and using Lyman digital scale. Compressed the powder maybe?

 

[Nimrod71]

As for your bolt binding, like Jester, I think your load is hot. My IMR loads for Sie. 168 MK are 41.2 gr of 4895 and 41.5 gr of 4064 and Bl-C2 is 44.5.

 

[Dub]

Ah I see ypu said throw all that brass away..... will do. Just surprised I had pressure issues with 45 gr and I have been very careful and using Lyman digital scale. Compressed the powder maybe?

That really is surprising at 45gr.


88 degrees is warm.....but it's not superheat like in Arizona or etc.

Couple of random questions come to mind.....just basic stuff....but sometimes we can overlook basics.....



Have you ever had snug bolt lift or abnormal looking primers when firing factory ammo in that rifle ?


Scale zero'd ?

Scale level ?

Ever test the scales calibration with check weights ?

Air conditioner vent or fan moving air towards the scale ?

 

[Jester896]

kinda surprises me too
OAL should be 2.80
making the combustion chamber smaller could increase the pressure.
your apps said to use 45gr?

 

[The Rodney]

New rifle to me so only about 60 factory loads without incident. My Lyman sigital scale comes with a 100 gram check weight and dead on. I also hit the zero button every five or so checks. My Lee scale is off compared to the Lyman digital bit the bench is not perfect on the bubble. I will move to a level table and check. Funny about fans in the garage. My lyman would fluctuate.... then I blew on the scale lightly and the scale bounced. Very sensative. Turned off the fan.

 

[Nimrod71]

I wonder about the compressed load. I know I am using different powder but I don't have compressed loads.

 

[The Rodney]

Jester, I would need to go check but I believe to max load was 47 gr. I did not seat to 2.8. I think that hurt me. Also, first 20 rifle rounds I ever loaded. My mag length is 2.835 and with a shell that long I am still a good bit from the lands.

 

[Nimrod71]

I just checked the Hodgdon reloading data site and it listed the starting load for CFE223 at 41.0 grains and max of 45.0 gr. compressed. I would suggest starting at 41 grains and working up.

 

[Nimrod71]

The only time I have experienced hard extraction was when I was shooting over maximum loads and the bullets touching the lands. That load didn't help accuracy either. Changed powders, backed off load and lands a little and the rifle shot a heck of a lot better.

 

[Jester896]

I just checked the Hodgdon reloading data site and it listed the starting load for CFE223 at 41.0 grains and max of 45.0 gr. compressed. I would suggest starting at 41 grains and working up.

I wonder why my results were so different when I looked earlier and posted them. If 45 is max compressed and he seated deep to make the issue worse.

I see… that is Barnes ttsx data at 45C

 

[Dub]

Yep....the charge weights listed for the Barnes is significantly less than those listed for Sierra bullets in that weight.

From the online version at Hodgdon.




Sure was an eye opener for me seeing that great a difference for Barnes than other bullets. I'll keep that in mind and stick to the Barnes manual for those TTSX loads I plan on working up.

 

[bullgator]

Rodney, do you have access to a chronograph?

 

[chuckdog]

I just finished reading the instructions for a Lyman digital scale. It appears to default to measure grams, not grains.

Make sure after calibration is passed to select gr not g.

From the Lyman Pocket Touch manual

" The scale can be changed to display grains or grams as desired. Press the MODE button to switch the scale from one to the other. In the grain mode the scale will display “gn”, in the gram mode the scale will display “g”."

I've already seen one Glock 9mm blown due to this setting this year.

 

[Nimrod71]

Chuck, it is good you brought the Gram and Grain modes to light. I have ran into this a couple of times. I am old and some times I forget to adjust my auto scales, they are so sensitive to wind, I always check them with my beam scale. I wish they would just make them in the grain mode.

In fact I have reverted back to using the beam scale for most of my reloading, it takes longer but what the heck, when you are retired you have plenty of time and what better way to use time than measuring loads on a beam scale. I enjoy my reloading so time is no bother.

The mode adjustments are one of the reasons i don't advise people just starting reloading to use auto scales. To me the beam is the best to start a person with. The beam gives them a better picture of the weight of a charge.

 

[The Rodney]

Bullgator - no Chrono. That would fun
Nimrod- copy that on gr vs. g very easy mistake to make.
The Sierra app and the Lee book have different start and max loads for CFE 223. I find that odd. I am however just going to stick with the Lee book. Starting over fresh with lowest load load and PROPER seating depth. Love this forum you guys are great.