Help With Field Training my Lab

[JACKED UP]

I need some help. I have an 8 month old yellow female lab. She has an excellant AKC pedigree. The problem I am having is she extremely skittish. She has been this way since we got her at 5-1/2 weeks. The snowball effect is taking place because of this.

I had her in a kennel with a reputable trainer. Unfortunately the trainer developed throat cancer and has put his training on hold. Certainely understandable. Well she came back home and I decided to try and train her myself or atleast try to expand off what she had already learned from being in a kennel. The trainer showed me exactly what to do. We have been practicing this for a little over a month and were making good progress.

I know she cowers whe loud noises go off. I am trying to work with her on being gun shy. I started clapping my hands right after I throw the bumper. This worked good. I then progressed to a boom with my voice. I scared the pee out of her when I did this and now she wont have hardly anything to do with the bumper. I have tried for a week to get back on track with her and no good. She will retrieve a tennis ball like no tommorow, but doesnt want to have anything to do with the bumper. If I talk to her to loud she just shuts down and I cant work her anymore. Help..

One more thing. She runs full speed to a tennis ball. Lots of drive. All along she will only run about 1/2 speed for a bumper. Not a lot of drive for it. She acts like oh well and casually picks it up and brings it back. I have tried to encourage her with voice commands. No luck. I also have a chocolate lab who is trained. I will make her sit and watch a session with him still no differance. I will even let her get involved and she is more fascinated with chasing and grabbing my chocolates collar than retrieving.

I am on thin ice with her, because when I reprimand her or I am stern with her she shuts down. No e-collar. I am not going to use one on her. This is my dog and from observing her behavior, i think an e-collar will do more harm than good. I am trying everything and nothing seems to be working. Please give me some advice. Why doesnt she like bumpers but likes tennis balls so much? Is there anything else out there I can use?

She came from a great AKC hunting line and shows alot of good characteristics of being a good gun dog, except for being so passive. She is extremely smart and has a good tempermant. Some of her littermates are in training and are doing extremely well. Please advise on how to work through this problem(s).

 

[ducks4u]

pups

hey, first of all throw the tennis balls away, she will always love something that bounces versus a bumper. only work her for about 5-10 min. for about a week mabe two, depending on how she acts to the short sessions. if she acts like shes not intrested put her up,( in a kennel). oh yeah not a good idea to get another dog out with her yet, since she is so young. oh yeah, if she looks to be doing better after a week try up to 15 min. for the pups i have trained i try not working them for more than 15 min. in a session, if you have anymore questions let me know. i have 3 labs of my own, that have there seasoned titles, and have trained a few labs for other people. camran, ducks4u

 

[ducks4u]

training methods

oh yeah, when you first start introducing noice into play, i start when they are 2-3 months old but only while they are eating and most of the time they will be fine with noice. but i have heard about some dogs doing that. try not to bring any noice into the picture when you have a bumper out, try just shooting a small cailber gun at a distance from her,i would do it while she was eating, that is the best time.then if she is ok with that work closer, then bigger cailber. i try to never use a loud voice if i am not getting on to them.\

 

[BOB_HARWELL]

Most dogs will show more interest in a tennis ball over a bumper.

Sit her down & sit beside her, rub a bumper all over her head & neck, talking softly to her with lots of praise, for 10 mins. Get up & walk around your yard swinging a bumper, still talking soft,baby talk, to her. Try to get her excited about the bumper & throw it 10 or so ft. If she goes for the bumper get down on your knees & call her to you, soft excited voice. She may be a 'wall flower', bottom of the litter pecking order, that will require a lot of patience. You will have to raise her confidence level. Good Luck.

BOB

 

[JACKED UP]

Thanks for the responses Bob and Camran. I will do just what you guys said. I will let you know if we have any progress in the next week or so.

Should I put any duck scent on the bumpers? Would that help? She just seems so un-interested in the bumpers, you can tell by her attitude.

 

[JACKED UP]

One more thing. I can get her to retrieve a bumper no problem(fetch-you know keeping it fun). She doesnt do it with much enthusiasm, but she will get it and bring it back. When we are working is the problem.

She does one of three things.

When I make her heel and hold until I release her is the problem. She will slowly run to it and sometimes pick it up, or bring it back about half way and drop it, or run to it and not pick it up, or when I release her she runs the other way with her tail tucked like she is scared.

When I reprimand her hard, game over she completly shuts down. Wont retrieve, just wants to go back to her kennel and hide.

 

[NGaHunter]

I'm curious if you know how the other pups of the litter are doing? 5 1/2 weeks is a bit early to let pups go.

On the training...You have gotten some good avice there...Good Luck.

 

[gatorbob]

Lab

I have had and trained 10 labs in my lifetime and agree with Wingmaster. I dont care how good the pedigree is,some just dont have it and it sounds like yours dosn't. Get another dog.

 

[bobman]

I wouldnt take a pup from a litter that was under 8 weeks and 10-12 is better. Your breeder is incompetent.

Forgo formal retreive training and build prey drive.

This may sound funny but take the dog to a local park ideally ( woods will work) and encourage it to chase squirells. All dogs love to do it, sit down against a tree and keep her sitting between your legs let her watch them and when one gets close and you can tell she's really interested let her run it up a tree. Do it early in the am before people are in the park. Let her tree them and encourage her good dog ect. Once shes really into that take a powerful pellet gun, obviously not in the park, and kill them for her. You want her to be a squirell chasing fiend before you move to the shooting step.


Once she understands the sight of the gun means a squirell falling move to a shotgun use a modified choke and 4's and hammer the squirell so he falls dead instantly at the shot do not take a iffy shot. ONE SHOT ONLY THATS IMPORTANT. Now shes learning shot means retrieve .

WHen shes a squirell hunting maniac jumping on her hind legs and barking at squirells and understands the gun means soething is going to fall its time to go back to retrive training .

GEt some pigeons and a friend thats a real good shot with a shotgun now use a open choke and 7.5's tease her with the pigeon and let it go have you friend shoot it ONLY ONE SHOT MAKE IT COUNT DONT SHOOT MULTIPLE TIMES and use the same language you used with the squirells and lots of praise. SHoot a couple a day leave her wanting more.

Now take her hunting and wait until after one season to steady her you want her to have the prey drive and the shot sequence firmly in her brain before you do anything else. Take abuddy let him shoot while you sit with your dog and no gun behind him so she sees the whole sequence him rise and shoot then the duck fall. Same as with the pigeons.

IN case you are wondering she will get over the squirells if you quit shooting them and there are few squirells in marshes anyway.

 

[91xjgawes]

good information bobman!

 

[JUSTO & BELLA]

YOU DONT HAVE TO GET RID OF A DOG BECAUSE OF A REASON LIKE THAT, THATS JUST A LAZY AND EASY WAY OUT BECAUSE YOUR NOT UP TO SPENDING A LITTLE MORE TIME WITH YOUR DOG. YOU TOOK ON THE DOG WEATHER ITS BECOMES A HUNTING DOG OR JUST A GOOD OL FAMILY DOG. THIS IS THE REASON THAT DOG POUNDS ARE OVER POPULATED AND GOOD DOGS ARE BEING PUT A SLEEP. THATS JUST A SAD REASON TO GIVE UP ON A DOG WHEN IN THE LONG RUN THE DOG WOULD BE THERE FOR YOU. SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING MICHEAL VICK WOULD SAY.

Best you try and find a nice pet home for her.[/QUOTE]

 

[ejs1980]

I would normally agree with wingmaster. If the dog is to be used as a hunting tool first there's no reason to keep it if it doesn't do what you need it too. In this situation I would say give the dog some time since you already have a lab that does what you need. I would work on her confidence right now and get her used to gunfire. Keep short training sessions for retrieving going but don't waste alot of time with it until she can overcome her fear of loud noises. Bobmans squirrel tactic may help and at least if it doesn't it'll scare her away from squirrels instead of birds. If you can't get her over being gun shy none of the other training will matter. Like said above keep the retrieves short and praise her when she does it right. This dog definetly needs positive reinforcement and asking her to do things she already does well will help her confidence. Sometimes it helps to let a dog retrieve a few real birds also. I usually clip a quails wings and let the dog find and chase it and catch it then throw it a short distance and let the dog retrieve it on a check cord. I doubt she would drop a real bird on the way back. Also I would talk to the trainer and see how she was doing for him and what he may have been doing different.

 

[JACKED UP]

Thanks everyone for the help. I am NOT going to give my dog away because of ONE problem we are having. I do understand what some on here are saying, but #1 I love her too much. If she is a gun dog failure, well she can just live in the AC, sleep in the bed, chase tennis balls, and become a bass fishing dog for the rest of her life. That would be OK with me. Also if i got rid of her my wife would get rid of me.

Strange turn of events happened this evening. I took Bob Harwell's advice as well as many more on this thread and was very gentle with her this afternoon. I tried a small training session, same result, Nothing, did not want too retrieve. My wife gets home from work and I tell her about some of the responses that were posted on here. She said "let me work her". I am thinking to myself, "yeah right, you dont even know where to begin with this dog." I told her the commands and she precedes from the start to work my yellow female flawlessly right in front of me. That dog ran harder and straighter than I have ever seen her do. She lasted 15 minutes without slowing down when we finally put her up. Most of the time we only work for 10 minutes a day at most. This is the best she has ever done.

My next question...Apparently I have been too hard on her. How can I correct this? I donot use an e-collar but I use loud, stern voice commands. As mentioned before she is very shy and timid (not from abuse, she has been like this from the start) Sometimes I yell these voice commands and apparently she doesnt like it. Just like the situation I mentioned earlier when I yelled "bang" as I threw the bumper. I was right in her face and she got scared. I am looking to make her a good gun dog. I am not interested in turning her into the next HRCH.

Thanks....

 

[JACKED UP]

Great info Bobman. Thanks. I just noticed you live in Monroe. I live in Good Hope.

 

[bobman]

Good luck, I've used the squirell thing to cure gunshy dogs also works great and squrells are free,although I hate to kill them.

However your last post tells me and you've already admitted to yourself it's you thats the problem not the dog.

Again this may sound funny but I'm a 6'4" 260lb babytalking sissy when I'm working bird dogs. My wife kids me about it but dogs definitely respond to voice tones.

So change your voice.

I sit on my porch and baby talk and scratch new dogs for the first couple weeks before I start any training, they have to view you as kind and trusted. There are exceptions but very few. You might want to try that for awhile and forget the training. Just build her confidence in you and when you resume training scale back on the pressure. To train dogs well is easy technically, its reading the individual dog thats an aquired skill.

I recently adopted a very nice pointer from Buddy lee on here. Buddy if you've never met him has a voice like a giant bullfrog (very deep and commanding).

Buddy mentioned to me that the pointer was kind of scared of his voice and he was right. I was recovering from ankle surgery when I took the dog and could not walk more than about 100 yards, so I took that opportunity to sip gin and tonics on my porch and just rub his ears and baby talk to him for the first few weeks.

Hes really came out of his shell, hes still a little skittish with strangers but coming along very well.

It was real nice of buddy to give him to me, very nice guy.

 

[bobman]

the squirell thing works well but different strokes for different folks. Pigeons are not available to everyone squirells are, but I'm not going to debate it. Nothing wrong with pigeons. Prey drive is prey drive until you have it you have nothing. How you get there really doesn't matter.


I've seen no consistant difference based on the sex of dogs, I've trained tough as he11 females and soft males.

You have to read the individual dog.

 

[91xjgawes]

you can tell bobman knows what he's talkin about!

 

[JACKED UP]

Thanks Bobman and Steve K. I really appreciate the advice. I know what challenges are ahead of me with my pup, but that will be the journey. Hopefully one day those heavy soft eyes will look up at me and I will see the thankyou in there.

Wingmaster01 I have WaterDog like everyone else and a few books by Mike Lardy. I mostly use the advice of you guys and others that are around me.

The famous saying "I wish I knew then, what I know now goes into effect about buying my yellow female." Overall I am happy with her, but there are always things you wish you could change. I am making the best out of what I got.

I just really got interested about Labs and gun dogs. I dont want to say I didnt do my homework, but I found a dog with good AKC papers. I wanted to get into the gundog world a little more than I already was and it was Valentine's Day. What a better way to make the wife happy and accomplish what I want with one stone. You catch my drift............ Next round in about 8 years when my oldest chocolate lab expires I will definately be more educated for my next pup.

Thanks everyone..

 

[BOB_HARWELL]

JU, Why did you take the pup from the litter at 5 1/2 wks. ?

BOB

 

[BME013]

Jacked Up just let Shanna train Molly to be a huntin dog.
Everyone at the club would get a kick out of that!