I need to pick your brains on a reloading problem.

[frankwright]

I have been reloading on a regular basis since I started on my kitchen table in an apartment around 1976 and usually have no problems. But I do now!
I bought a new M1 Carbine. I bought 400 rounds of PPU JSP. Fitst 30 rounds I had a few failure to go into battery etc but to be expected with a new semi auto. After that it settled down and no more issues of any kind.
I wasn't going to reload but ended up with so much brass from mine and a friend gave me a bunch too,
I cleaned,deprimed, full length resized, cleaned primer pocket. Trimmed to 1.286. Lightly flared case mouth and loaded some 90 grain Hornady JHP. Internet reloaders said to load to 1.550.
I had problems with them not firing. I used CCI small rifle primers and then switched to Winchester. I had to lengthen the cartridge to 1.609 to get it to feed and cycle but most are not firing and looks like a pretty decent primer hit.
Last night I pulled three bullets and all the primered cases fired!
I kinow the bolt is fully home. I know the M1 carbine headspaces on the case mouth. That is about all I know.
I tried crimp and no crimp and it made no difference.

I am at a loss to what to do next and welcome any input!
Thanks!

 

[chuckdog]

Most rounds that headspace off the case mouth seldom require trimming.

The act of a rimless selfloader slamming into battery will tend to shorten cases over several loadings.

Try FL sizing again, then use as little case mouth expansion as possible to get the projectile started in.

I usually use just enough taper crimp to make it uniform. Basically remove any case mouth expansion.

I would definitely try some commercial/military factory ammo to see if there's any difference.

 

[280 Man]

I have been reloading on a regular basis since I started on my kitchen table in an apartment around 1976 and usually have no problems. But I do now!
I bought a new M1 Carbine. I bought 400 rounds of PPU JSP. Fitst 30 rounds I had a few failure to go into battery etc but to be expected with a new semi auto. After that it settled down and no more issues of any kind.
I wasn't going to reload but ended up with so much brass from mine and a friend gave me a bunch too,
I cleaned,deprimed, full length resized, cleaned primer pocket. Trimmed to 1.286. Lightly flared case mouth and loaded some 90 grain Hornady JHP. Internet reloaders said to load to 1.550.
I had problems with them not firing. I used CCI small rifle primers and then switched to Winchester. I had to lengthen the cartridge to 1.609 to get it to feed and cycle but most are not firing and looks like a pretty decent primer hit.
Last night I pulled three bullets and all the primered cases fired!
I kinow the bolt is fully home. I know the M1 carbine headspaces on the case mouth. That is about all I know.
I tried crimp and no crimp and it made no difference.

I am at a loss to what to do next and welcome any input!
Thanks!

You say, I pulled three bullets and all primered cases fired!

You mean a charged case didnt fire?? What powder you using and what charge weight! Are your primers seating deep enough?

 

[frankwright]

Yes pulled bullets, dumped powder and primered cases fired.
I am using 15.5 grns oi H110. I used both CCI#41 primers that are magnum and harder to set off and WSR with about the same results.
Factory ammo fires fine.
I use a Lee hand primer and thought I was seating the primers firmly. I am not sure if I tried to fire the once hit rounds again but I will because if they fire I would blame it on the primer not being seated deep enough but I find that hard to believe as I have loaded thousands of other rifle rounds the exact same way.
I will get it figured out it is just bugging me. I don't do failure good

 

[280 Man]

Is there anyway that the powder is getting contaminated? It's hard to believe that primer went off without setting off the powder charge! Good luck!

 

[transfixer]

I would imagine it has to e something to do with crimping ? but you said you tried some with no crimp ? Check and see if the ones that didn't want to fire are of the same brass lot ? as in same manufacturer or headstamp ? maybe the case walls are too thin on those and just not sticking out enough to headspace correctly ?

 

[rosewood]

Do you know for sure it isn't the gun? Maybe the firing pin tunnel has crud in it slowing down the firing pin??

Even though it headspaces off the mouth, many semis will still fire even if headspace is excessive as the extractor will hold the round in place.

Rosewood

 

[rosewood]

Is there anyway that the powder is getting contaminated? It's hard to believe that primer went off without setting off the powder charge! Good luck!

Yeah, I agree.

Frank, are you saying the primers fired in the case and the powder didn't burn? Or you poured out the powder then chambered the primed case in the gun and it then fired?

Rosewood

 

[frankwright]

I poured out the powder and fired the case with only primer. PPU factory ammo both FMJ and JSP works fine.
It is something with my reloads.
Yes I tried no crimp,light crimp and heavier crimp and cannot really tell a difference.
I loaded 15 more rounds this time using all the same cases, seated the primers as firm as possible and medium crimped. I hope to try them on Wednesday.

 

[Nimrod71]

You may have contaminated the primers. I had the same problem one time with 45-70's I had loaded. Pull the bullets on the ones not firing and replace the primers and see if that works.

 

[rosewood]

I poured out the powder and fired the case with only primer. PPU factory ammo both FMJ and JSP works fine.
It is something with my reloads.
Yes I tried no crimp,light crimp and heavier crimp and cannot really tell a difference.
I loaded 15 more rounds this time using all the same cases, seated the primers as firm as possible and medium crimped. I hope to try them on Wednesday.

That does sound like a headspace issue then. Once you pulled the bullets, I would think the mouth would have opened up a bit and made it properly headspace. Could your bullets be too small? Not sure what caliber they could be, but if too small, the crimp would taper down the mouth more than it is supposed to and allow the cartridge to slide past the edge in the chamber it is supposed to headspace off of.

Good luck.

Rosewood

 

[rosewood]

Years ago when I first started reloading rifle cartridges, I had an issue with my .270 win. I would full length resize then load the round and it wouldn't chamber in my rifle. Tried everything I could think of and couldn't figure it out. Sent to Lee they said die was within spec. Let it lay for awhile then tried again and haven't had an issue since. Still no idea what the problem was. Maybe I was adjusting it wrong or maybe I had some brass that had issues. Who knows.

Rosewood

 

[JeffinPTC]

That is about all I know

Reminds me you one of my favorite Bob Seger Lines:

Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then...


What I didn't know is that you could load anything but 110 gr bullets for 30 carbine. I don't know why it would make a diff, but maybe start over with 110 gr.

30 Carbine has been my most problematic load also. I was crushing about 10% of the case mouths at s2 (powder) on my Dillon 550.
Guy on the CMP reloading forum put me onto Uniquetek and I ordered a funnel extension and turbo bearing kit to hold the case straighter. It helped. It was expensive.

https://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=255858&highlight=uniquetek

https://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=6

 

[rayjay]

First I would measure factory loaded ammo every which way but loose. Case mouth dia, dia at the middle of the case, dia just above the extractor groove, case length, and ???? Next take the same measurements of some fired cases, Then the same measurements on resized empty cases, then the same measurements on some reloaded rounds. Hopefully I would discover some pertinent discrepancy.

Hmm, Just thought of something. Try some pistol primers. I seem to remember that pistol primers have thinner cups. Or maybe I am misremembering

 

[Jester896]

Still no idea what the problem was.

more than likely the shoulder area/ Datum area of the dies wasn't coming into contact with the fired case. Under some conditions when that occurs it actually lengthens the case a few thousands and may not let the bolt close on the case...or round if loaded. It seems to be a common problem.

Showed a guy that had been loading for over 40 years why his bolt was hard to close on his new rifle. After sizing his case it was .007 longer than SAAMI spec. In all of the other rifles he loaded for in that caliber he had never had an issue. His new rifle was a custom and the chamber was dead on SAAMI spec.

 

[treemanjohn]

I can't see how any of the prep or loading process would effect the powder not burning after a primer strike.

Do you hear the primer pop when trying to shoot the loaded cartridges?

 

[rosewood]

more than likely the shoulder area/ Datum area of the dies wasn't coming into contact with the fired case. Under some conditions when that occurs it actually lengthens the case a few thousands and may not let the bolt close on the case...or round if loaded. It seems to be a common problem.

Showed a guy that had been loading for over 40 years why his bolt was hard to close on his new rifle. After sizing his case it was .007 longer than SAAMI spec. In all of the other rifles he loaded for in that caliber he had never had an issue. His new rifle was a custom and the chamber was dead on SAAMI spec.

The cartridges measured the same as factory. I trimmed the brass to minimum spec. I even ground a few thousandths off a shell plate to allow the die to go down further. Didn't make a difference. Using the same die now and haven't had any issues. No idea what was going on. Looking back, just about had to be a problem with the brass I was using. Was R-P, but that is what I still use.

It was early in my rifle loading days, so there may have been something I wasn't doing that I do now and don't remember.

Rosewood

 

[frankwright]

Primers defiantly not contaminated, I have been doing this a long time.
No primers are not firing when hammer hits them but it is making a good indention.
I should have known better than to try anything other than a 110 gr, especially a hollow point but I was wanting to try a little more wound on a pig.
I have run a micrometer all over my reloaded case and the factory loaded cartridge. Crimp size at mouth is exactly the same. Case size at the very back is .005 larger on my case and the die is adjusted down as far as possible.
I plan to go to the range tomorrow.

 

[Jester896]

Hornady manual says trim to 1.280 (min length) and load 90gr XTP to 1.550. Did you look at the end of the bullet for markings from the throat at the longer length? SAAMI says min length would be 1.625...gotta think that is for 110 bullet.

I'll try to catch up with my buddy tomorrow and ask him...he has loaded for 30 Carbine

 

[Darkhorse]

I would do this even if it didn't fix the problem, get a primer pocket uniformer and use it on every case you have. Once and done. It gets the job done the first time.
When the primer pocket is formed there is a small radius left in the bottom of the pocket. When a primer is seated the leading edge contacts this radius and often stops the primer from being fully seated. Often it will be high and easily felt by rubbing a finger over it.
Some problems have been premature ignition of the primer and a spongy feel to the primer which can absorb the strike of the hammer and fail to ignite the primer.
What the uniformer does is cut out that little radius. This allows a new primer to seat full depth insuring uniform ignition of all primers.
When testing loads each case has had this done to it. It only takes about 2 turns to remove it. Just one more thing to do in the search for accuracy.

https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Primer-Pocket-Uniformer-Large/dp/B003VJQABU