Nimrod71
Senior Member
Handloading Supply in Kansas has IMR 4831 for $ 32.52 per lb. as of 7:30 today.
Welcome Guest!
New to reloading and have some questions…
- Thread starter MtnBear
- Start date
Ask and you shall receive. Now to convince the wife that buying more powder makes sense… I see flowers, massages and wine in my future boys…
Thanks again Nimrod71– very helpful!
Update: website is a scam— only accepts nft and crypto. Any other online sites to consider guys?
Dub
Senior Member
As far as online sources....I've been getting primers & powder from the following throughout the rioting & covid era.....11:00am EST seems to be a good time to check....and you'll have to check daily. It's aggravating, it's expensive but it is available....sometimes.
- MidwayUSA
- Brownells
- Powder Valley
- Graf's
- Hogdgon's website store
As far as the slightly different bullet weights...165gr vs 168gr and etc......you already know the construction is different as may be the bearing surface area.
You'll have to buy & try.
Years ago I had very good results with 165gr GameKing in .308Win. Easy to find a nice accurate load.....and results on deer were really good.
I haven't stayed current....far from it....but "back in the day" Sierra bullets used to be a nice bargain. You could find 100rd boxes for what Nosler was charging for 50rds.
I have zero experience with the tipped GameKing...what's it called, The GameChanger...
Were I trying to get a load that more closely mated up to those sweet SMK bullets you have...I would be tempted to try a couple boxes of those GameChangers.
Sierra has an excellent reloading manual and they also have perhaps the most useful cellphone app, too (free).
Wish you the best of luck...but then again, handloading will help you to make your own luck.
Congrats on the great arrangement on the reloading gear. Make sure you wife understands the enormous cost savings you scored.
Also, congrats on the M70.
Post up some pics of your rifle and your progress. Will be mighty fun to see things develop for you.
Darkhorse
Senior Member
May I offer a couple more options? I have a .300 Win mag. I bought back around 1990 to replace my 7mm mag. as my Elk rifle. I have killed 2 Elk and a ton of whitetails with this rifle, including my largest white tail and a couple at extended ranges.
I load IMR 4350 in both the 7 mag and 300 mag. Both elk were shot with 180. grain Hornady Interlocks. The deer were all shot with 165 grain Interlocks.
The Nosler website has loading data and it shows 70 grains of IMR4350 pushes a 180 grain bullet at 3160 FPS. The IMR 4831 pushes the same bullet to virtually the same velocity. I like IMR 4350, it's been my magnum rifle staple for decades.
As for bullets you may or not like the Hornady Interlocks, they are hunting bullets but not considered premium. But I would consider either the Nosler 180 grain Accubond or the Nosler 180 grain Partition Spitzer. Both of these are premium bullets.
For Elk I would only load the 180 grainers, the 165 grain bullets are more of a deer bullet.
Whatever you choose get a lot of practice. The .300 Win. Mag. can be a lot of rifle
and only practice can tame it.
I load IMR 4350 in both the 7 mag and 300 mag. Both elk were shot with 180. grain Hornady Interlocks. The deer were all shot with 165 grain Interlocks.
The Nosler website has loading data and it shows 70 grains of IMR4350 pushes a 180 grain bullet at 3160 FPS. The IMR 4831 pushes the same bullet to virtually the same velocity. I like IMR 4350, it's been my magnum rifle staple for decades.
As for bullets you may or not like the Hornady Interlocks, they are hunting bullets but not considered premium. But I would consider either the Nosler 180 grain Accubond or the Nosler 180 grain Partition Spitzer. Both of these are premium bullets.
For Elk I would only load the 180 grainers, the 165 grain bullets are more of a deer bullet.
Whatever you choose get a lot of practice. The .300 Win. Mag. can be a lot of rifle
and only practice can tame it.
Thank you, and thank you. I’d been doing research for almost 3 years on rifles chambered in 300win mag. When I finally settled on the model 70 I called around for what felt like months… finally the guys at Rocky Mountain Shooter supply came through for me and were able to secure the m70 in the AAA Super Grade Black French Walnut. My jaw dropped and my wallet opened and when I came around I was the owner of the **** thing. To say I was blown away by the fact they had one and that it was still in the box is an understatement. My baby rests patiently in a case, she’s yet to be fired and it’s eatin me up. My buddy at the store had this to say… she’s too pretty to hunt with and too accurate to leave at home.
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That’s a the truth. And with 750 matchking sbt practice I shall.
I appreciate your suggestion because I frankly known nothing about reloading and their is tinkering ahead for me, how much and how deep I tinker is unclear. As it stands now I’ve got a lot of IMR4895 and I’m looking to buy some IMR4831, now it looks like I might also buy some IMR4350.
Appreciate your suggestions regarding the bullets as well, I agree that 165g is a little small and I’m sure in the future I’ll work up a 180g or 200g recipe better suited to large game like moose and bears. For now I want a load that is predominately for dear the occasional antelope and sheep/ram. But I suspect any 165g bullet @+/-3000fps will ethically kill any medium sized elk within 350 yards. So the versatility and predictably of a lighter but capable bullet is why I’m choosing to start with the 165g.
That said tell me more about the Hornady interlock you’ve had success with… specifically the 165g and how flat it shoots, and if you can elaborate how it handles light wind and quick/sudden humidity changes. I know what the Sierra gamekings do because I’ve fired the 165g hpbt kg many times. Absolutely zero experience with the Hornady stuff…
Thanks in advance!
Thank you, I’m blessed. Seems everyone is having to compromise these days to take home a new rifle and somehow I got my bucket list baby instead of the standard m70. But let’s be honest both guns shoot better then ol’mtnbear properly ever could or will! ??Beautiful rifle @MtnBear
It made me blurt out an admiring comment that would get me banned due to the language rules & regs here. Family friendly site.
Gorgeous wood & blue on what is a known great action.
Very nice.
SakoL61R
Senior Member
That is one beautiful rifle! Congrats!
I tote a completely rebuilt (in 1992) 300WM through the mtns of Oregon when I'm chasing Roosies.
Concur with Darkhorse on 180's.
Been wanting to try some Nos 190 ABLRs.
I tote a completely rebuilt (in 1992) 300WM through the mtns of Oregon when I'm chasing Roosies.
Concur with Darkhorse on 180's.
Been wanting to try some Nos 190 ABLRs.
Thank you ? I appreciate your thoughts on the 180’s. Since we haven’t peeled back the onion yet on this and I know that I’ll end up with 2 loads for this gun down the road… (still focused on building my sister bullet to my 169g smk) the loading manual says that id have to use either IMR4831 or IMR4350, both already on the buy list, but that’s less important at this point then this question for me… why is a 180g bullet considered better in 300win mag for say an elk under 400 yards then a 165g bullet at the same distance. If we figure I used a 180g bullet and IMR4831 near max load to compare with the 165g bullet with IMR4895 near max load it would be 165g delivering muzzle energy of approx 9,151 vs that of the 180g at approx 10,002.
As someone who knows very little about the implications of these figures it’s hard for me to see that a bullet weight of 15 additional grain could make that big of a difference. But I know next to nothing and I’m trying to learn so any help her is appreciated. To my gut a 165 for medium game and 200 for big game makes more sense. What am I missing?
Thank you!
Darkhorse
Senior Member
For one thing your missing bullet construction, such as jacket thickness. Plus the 180 grain will penetrate deeper than the 165. Hornady makes the 165 for deer. And they groove a little ring just above the striations so you can feel it and know it's a 165 grain. You might load 165 grain bullets for under 300 yards but there is no guarantee the bull of your dreams will be under 300 yards and standing broadside. So I load for the worst scenario at the shot. That way I can hope to be covered.
Hornady is one of our oldest bullet companies. Many years ago I started shooting them because they were easy to get. The Interlock is an attempt to keep the copper and the lead from coming apart on impact. The Interlock ring is inside the case and it's a raised ring of copper portuding inside the case. After the case is formed molten lead is poured inside the jacket which then hardens on both sides of the ring creating a mechanical lock. It works pretty good too. Almost all my game has been taken with the Interlock since it goes back so far. It is also an accurate bullet. Notice my Avatar it's a 3 shot group of Interlocks shot with my 7mm Mag.
The 165 grain loaded to max. or close is a good flat shooting bullet. I used it for several years on a property that had several huge clearcuts where I could see a long way. I killed 3 bucks well beyond 300 yards and I allowed no holdover for the shot. Just aim where I wanted to and squeeze the trigger.
I don't believe moisture will have much effect on bullet performance. The effect comes mostly from a rifle not set up for long shots where the stock will move against the barrel changing the harmonics and moving POI.
I have never noticed much effect from the wind with 165 grainers and the 180 grain bullets will buck the wind even better.
BTW the thicker jacket of the 180 grain serves to control expansion a little assuring the bullet doesn't open up too quickly and then retard penetration.
Hornady is one of our oldest bullet companies. Many years ago I started shooting them because they were easy to get. The Interlock is an attempt to keep the copper and the lead from coming apart on impact. The Interlock ring is inside the case and it's a raised ring of copper portuding inside the case. After the case is formed molten lead is poured inside the jacket which then hardens on both sides of the ring creating a mechanical lock. It works pretty good too. Almost all my game has been taken with the Interlock since it goes back so far. It is also an accurate bullet. Notice my Avatar it's a 3 shot group of Interlocks shot with my 7mm Mag.
The 165 grain loaded to max. or close is a good flat shooting bullet. I used it for several years on a property that had several huge clearcuts where I could see a long way. I killed 3 bucks well beyond 300 yards and I allowed no holdover for the shot. Just aim where I wanted to and squeeze the trigger.
I don't believe moisture will have much effect on bullet performance. The effect comes mostly from a rifle not set up for long shots where the stock will move against the barrel changing the harmonics and moving POI.
I have never noticed much effect from the wind with 165 grainers and the 180 grain bullets will buck the wind even better.
BTW the thicker jacket of the 180 grain serves to control expansion a little assuring the bullet doesn't open up too quickly and then retard penetration.
chuckdog
Senior Member
Welcome to the world of handloading!
The 300 Win is an excellent choice for hunting medium and large North American game. Most rifles I've had chambered in the 300 Win reacted well to reduced power loads as well. This has made the 300 Win a long time "If I could have only one rifle for N. A. game" winner.
My experience with MK vs GK of similar design has been varied. Some may group well with near identical poi, others not even close.
As I'm sure you know the powder you have is an excellent very versatile one. It ain't one at the top of my list for the 300, but if it's what you have at this time it'll do fine.
I'm keen on high load densities. A compressed load is something I prefer. With the 300's short neck and most magazine lengths compressed loads are common.
The 4831's along with Allaint Reloader 19 and 22 have all worked well for me in the 300 Win. After the initial firing, neck sizing only will allow the belted cartridge to better headspace off the shoulder of the case which many times enhances accuracy.
Reloader 19 likely my overall favorite in this area of burn rates.
The 300 Win is an excellent choice for hunting medium and large North American game. Most rifles I've had chambered in the 300 Win reacted well to reduced power loads as well. This has made the 300 Win a long time "If I could have only one rifle for N. A. game" winner.
My experience with MK vs GK of similar design has been varied. Some may group well with near identical poi, others not even close.
As I'm sure you know the powder you have is an excellent very versatile one. It ain't one at the top of my list for the 300, but if it's what you have at this time it'll do fine.
I'm keen on high load densities. A compressed load is something I prefer. With the 300's short neck and most magazine lengths compressed loads are common.
The 4831's along with Allaint Reloader 19 and 22 have all worked well for me in the 300 Win. After the initial firing, neck sizing only will allow the belted cartridge to better headspace off the shoulder of the case which many times enhances accuracy.
Reloader 19 likely my overall favorite in this area of burn rates.
Nimrod71
Senior Member
I really like your rifle, it looks great. Elk hunting in the mountains can be rough on a rifle and scope. On one of our hunts my horse slid on some shale and we went down and rolled about 20 yds. down the mountain. My rifle and Leupold scope survived with no bad effect. A few scratches want hurt. You may want to think of getting a hunting stock.
As for heavier bullets the 180's may be better, you may get more penetration with a heavier bullet. This is one of the things that makes reloading so much fun, picking what to use. You are only limited by your own desires. How many different loading do I want to try. How many bullets, what powders, what primers, what brass. What scope to use. What improvements do I want to make on the rifle, bedding, trigger, stock. All these things to consider and all will make a difference in the way your rifle will shoot.
Its good you have a powder and bullets to start with. Most of us started that away, with only a few pieces.
I have used 180's before and they have their place and there are some advantages to using them especially in long range shooting and penetration. Also for powder the 4350 powder is useful too. I have used both. I'm like you I got an 8 lb. bottle of IMR 4831 at a good price and I have been using it for years.
As for heavier bullets the 180's may be better, you may get more penetration with a heavier bullet. This is one of the things that makes reloading so much fun, picking what to use. You are only limited by your own desires. How many different loading do I want to try. How many bullets, what powders, what primers, what brass. What scope to use. What improvements do I want to make on the rifle, bedding, trigger, stock. All these things to consider and all will make a difference in the way your rifle will shoot.
Its good you have a powder and bullets to start with. Most of us started that away, with only a few pieces.
I have used 180's before and they have their place and there are some advantages to using them especially in long range shooting and penetration. Also for powder the 4350 powder is useful too. I have used both. I'm like you I got an 8 lb. bottle of IMR 4831 at a good price and I have been using it for years.
Thank you for clarifying. This makes a lot of sense, I appreciate the breakdown. Based on your evaluation of 165g vs 180g can we elaborate on something… (and let’s, for the sake of this example, assume that both 165g and 180g bullets considered here are from the same manufacturer and are designed and engineered identical)
If I’m building a load to hunt with and let’s say I don’t have the constraints of creating a sister hunting round to my target shooting round. Can it be said that the 180g bullet is generally a better overall choice when compared to 165g bullet? Or do you think my approach of finding a sister hunting load to my 165g target load makes more sense to start and then work up a 180g or a 200g load later?
Thank you again for sharing your wisdom.
UPDATE: I forgot to mention before thanks for breaking down the interlock bullets more. I’m going to call my local shop today and see if they will order me some spitzer bt in 165g of both the interlok and the game king sbt and see which one shoots truer! My grandpa swears by the Remington core-lokt but neither myself or my brother-in-law have had any success with the Remington bullets here in Colorado, they just seem to fly around everywhere…
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Interesting— because I know less than nothing when it comes to powder and a lot of the points that are being introduced here require additional homework on my end help me understand something…
I can appreciate that versatility in a powder is an appealing characteristic, but I can also understand why one would choose an application specific powder as well. But beyond that the examples that have been shared are anecdotal and experiential. When I have better understand these insights will make more sense to me because I’ll have a better frame of reference… The question here is: If I work up a load with a faster burning powder like IMR4895 and then I decided to change the powder in the recipe to IMR4831 with a matching charge per load manual how does that change the flight characteristics of the bullet? Or should I be asking how the powder will change another aspect of the load?
Thank you!
Bobby Bigtime
Senior Member
Beautiful rifle! I owned a 300 mag target rifle for awhile and got best results with 4831 and 180 grain bullets. I did get very good results with the bullets you have though. You are poised for a lifetime of enjoyment good luck!
I’m starting to see exactly what you mean…
The hard part for me is starting this journey in the world we are living in today where materials are so hard to acquire and usually come at a premium well above the normal price. As a general rule I don’t like wasting money and when I do I always feel guilty that the money waisted could have been spent on my kids or my wife or my house or any other number of things that I care about. That’s not to say that I don’t care about reloading or my hunts, quiet the opposite, but I’d rather learn from others success then learn from my own failure as I start this journey.
Because you use all 3 powders that I’ll eventually buy and work with… and knowing I’ve got a buttload of IMR4895 how do you expect a loads performance will change when moving from IMR4895 to IMR4831 on a 165g bullet? Beyond 165g the manuals I’ve got don’t call for 4895 so I suspect if I bump up to a 180g bullet I’d have to change from 4895 to 4831 anyway. But I don’t know what I don’t know, so…
Thanks again for all your help @Nimrod71
Thanks, Bobby! Once I get my head screwed on straight I’ll share some results. But for now I’m just soaking up the knowledge.
?
JeffinPTC
Senior Member
My fav hunting rifle is my Weatherby 300 Win Mag Sporter(24"), so I've been following your thread. Here's a response from Sierra in Aug 2016 on which bullet they recommend in GA for whitetails. In my Sierra edition 6, the 165 and 168 SGKs and Match Kings are on the same data page, so you should be able to work up with your stash and then tweak for the Hunting load. And I doubt you need a tip for 200 yard shots in Georgia, but I'm not hunting in the Rockies. The colors are cute though.
FWIW, I'm migrating to Speer and Nosler because they don't charge you for instructions for using their product. I just re downloaded the Sierra app mentioned above, and it still costs to use the app, even if you already own the manual.
Edited for clarity
Is the 2160 the best choice for GA Whitetails at 200 or less in a Vanguard 24" 300WBY?
You should be able to use our #2145 165gr SBT GameKing or even our #2140 165gr HPBT GameKing with great success on whitetails at close range.
Philip Mahin
Ballistic Technician
NRA Life Member
1400 W. Henry St. Sedalia, MO 65301
Questions? Call us toll free 800-223-8799
Check out my latest blog post at sierrabullets.wordpress.com.
FWIW, I'm migrating to Speer and Nosler because they don't charge you for instructions for using their product. I just re downloaded the Sierra app mentioned above, and it still costs to use the app, even if you already own the manual.
Edited for clarity
Is the 2160 the best choice for GA Whitetails at 200 or less in a Vanguard 24" 300WBY?
You should be able to use our #2145 165gr SBT GameKing or even our #2140 165gr HPBT GameKing with great success on whitetails at close range.
Philip Mahin
Ballistic Technician
NRA Life Member
1400 W. Henry St. Sedalia, MO 65301
Questions? Call us toll free 800-223-8799
Check out my latest blog post at sierrabullets.wordpress.com.
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