North Georgia Deer Study

[NCHillbilly]

Everybody keeps talking about habitat and cutting and burning. While a very very huge percent of nf land is older growth there is areas and like I said earlier thousands of acres in places of very hot burns that simulates a clear-cut. All sun blocking mature trees gone and far as the eye can see and dense new growth so thick you can't walk. How come there are no more deer there than any other places? Those blocks of prime habitat should be the areas tested in these studies to see how they compare to mature woods. Results will be the same. To many predators. The deer in the mountains can't stand the pressure. I'd be willing to to volunteer several weeks of my time to help with restocking deer into these areas just to see if the population can bounce back in those areas of prime habitat. But I believe it won't make a difference until some more bears are gone.

Around here on the NF, any burn or cut has more deer than the rest of the area for the most part. It takes a few years to be noticeable, though.

 

[greg j]

We have a couple of members in our club in Talbot Ct who live in Blue Ridge. They say that if you want to hunt bear Blue Ridge is the place to go. If you want to hunt deer you need to go south. Thats why they hunt in Talbot.

 

[across the river]

Everybody keeps talking about habitat and cutting and burning. While a very very huge percent of nf land is older growth there is areas and like I said earlier thousands of acres in places of very hot burns that simulates a clear-cut. All sun blocking mature trees gone and far as the eye can see and dense new growth so thick you can't walk. How come there are no more deer there than any other places? Those blocks of prime habitat should be the areas tested in these studies to see how they compare to mature woods. Results will be the same. To many predators. The deer in the mountains can't stand the pressure. I'd be willing to to volunteer several weeks of my time to help with restocking deer into these areas just to see if the population can bounce back in those areas of prime habitat. But I believe it won't make a difference until some more bears are gone.

There are patches that have more deer than others. A guy posted pictures in the trail cam forum of plenty of deer he had on his place the mountains, yet people come on here all the time and say there aren't any deer in the area. Deer populations can vary greatly, even in small areas, but it is all habitat dependent.

 

[C.Killmaster]

I wonder how many of those molested fawns would have survived the predators attacks had they not been wearing a collar?

The vast majority of predation occurs when fawns are staying bedded down all the time trying to hide, so the collar really isn't slowing them down. The collars are designed to be a very low percentage of the animals body weight to keep from impacting the results of the research. There has also been a ton of research and development with collars on captive deer to make sure they don't impact the ability of deer to survive. We have been radio-collaring deer for over 40 years and those type of issues have been addressed.

 

[across the river]

I wonder how many of those molested fawns would have survived the predators attacks had they not been wearing a collar?

I wonder how many people would see more deer if they spent more time trying to improve some habitat themselves and less time fussing about what the DNR is or isn't doing?

 

[GSPEED]

Habitat on CNF isn’t going to change and predators aren’t going anywhere,so what’s the plan? Or is it done?

 

[GSPEED]

I wonder how many people would see more deer if they spent more time trying to improve some habitat themselves and less time fussing about what the DNR is or isn't doing?

So what’s your suggestions that someone could do for improving habitat on public land.

 

[C.Killmaster]

How many folks are actually trapping coyotes, the number one fawn predator, on CNF? The bear bag limit was increased and you can shoot bears the length of deer season, but coyotes are still killing more fawns than bears.

The habitat won't change on CNF until hunters outnumber the opposition at USFS meetings and comment periods on timber management. There are groups whose sole purpose is to prevent timber management on CNF. That's how you step up to make a change. You have more power than DNR.

 

[whitetailfreak]

I met a guy on the Cohutta WMA during the turkey season. He has been working for the last 7 years for the National Forest Service cleaning out trails in the Wilderness area. He told me that he has only seen 2 deer in 7 years. That’s on the trails, in the woods, from the truck, day, or night. 2 deer!

A 1 deer limit in that area is too high. Killing more bears and coyotes would probably help a little, but let’s face it, if the bears are depending on deer for food, they’d be starving to death. In my opinion, the left wing “save the earth” activists (Sierra Club, and those like it) are responsible for saving the forests and in turn killing off wildlife in these areas of the North Georgia mountains. As hunters, we have to start Managing our wildlife and forests. That means cutting timber, cutting limits, or even cancellation of hunting seasons for a few years. Even if we do all these things, it will take years, if not decades to get back to the good old days.

And by the way, we have a ton of wildlife biologist that work for us at the state and federal levels. They know exactly what needs to be done. Exactly why does the state keep having open forums to aski hunters what they want? (Bait, higher limit, longer season, more doe days.) We’ve gotten just about everything we’ve asked for for years. It hasn’t worked. Maybe the Biologists and Managers should get a chance now.
Sorry about the rant. Just my 2 cents.

A fella with FS told you that he's seen 2 deer in seven years while working Cohutta? That's hard to believe. In the last 7 years I've killed 7 bucks off Cohutta and surrounding CNF, let numerous bucks walk and seen untold numbers of does. No, it's not loaded by any stretch but Cohutta is certainly not void of deer. I probably saw 20-25 deer on Cohutta during turkey season.

 

[tree cutter 08]

I get what y'all are saying about habitat but it sounds like unless all the woods are cut things ain't going to improve. I just find it odd that after spending the last 3 years hunting, running cams and walking hundreds of miles year round on a couple of areas of big burns and select cuts I have realized I have wasted a lot of time. I'll be leaving the burns and cut overs and hunting the mature timber all season. I see far more deer and sign in those big woods even in the summer when the burns are full of good cover and food. Nothing is going to change with the timber cutting, especially on all the wilderness land. So we can rule that out. Only thing that leaves to be managed is predators and the deer harvest. Thankfully the doe days are gone so all I can see that is the predators. Id be more than willing to trap yotes if I could trap closed roads. Not practical to walk a trap line with all the gear required to do it effectively. I'm usually off 3 or 4 weeks January and February due to bad weather and would love to help out. I know a few others that would jump at the opportunity to trap all the miles of closed roads in the mountains if they could drive the trap line. How about a permit system to allow a few trappers to trap certain areas and hand them a key?

 

[across the river]

So what’s your suggestions that someone could do for improving habitat on public land.

The post below yours by the DNR expert himself tells you what you can do for public land. I personally would try to find my own private spot to manage as I want. In the mid-late 90's and even into the early 2000s I duck hunted primarily public Landin Georgia. It started get to be more aggravation than it was worth, especially with a family. I saved up and did without other stuff to get my own place here to hunt, deer included. You can sit around and fuss about what somebody else isn't doing for you, or you can figure out a way to get it done yourself.

 

[Cposey]

From May 27th-July 17th 2019 32 fawns were captured and fitted with radio collars and less than 20% survived with 56% being killed by predators and with coyotes and bears most often responsible. This study is being done on Coopers Creek and Blue Ridge WMA’s. It also says that the DNR documented significant decrease in deer harvest and hunter numbers and since the early 2000s timber harvest have nearly stopped on national forests,leaving only mature trees with little understory to provide food and cover for deer. Also says the DNR adjusted hunting season to decrease harvest of female deer, however deer numbers have continued to decrease. Any thoughts on this?

That is interesting stuff, could you post the link to the study?

 

[GSPEED]

That is interesting stuff, could you post the link to the study?

I just looked up North Georgia deer study.

 

[Whit90]

How many folks are actually trapping coyotes, the number one fawn predator, on CNF? The bear bag limit was increased and you can shoot bears the length of deer season, but coyotes are still killing more fawns than bears.

The habitat won't change on CNF until hunters outnumber the opposition at USFS meetings and comment periods on timber management. There are groups whose sole purpose is to prevent timber management on CNF. That's how you step up to make a change. You have more power than DNR.

Sounds like we need to form a group whose sole purpose is to lobby for and support improvement of habitat and game populations on CNF, and have a presence at every one of these meetings and commenting periods. The group would have a much greater presence if there were a biologist on board like yourself.

Yall interested?

 

[chrislibby88]

Around here on the NF, any burn or cut has more deer than the rest of the area for the most part. It takes a few years to be noticeable, though.

Yea I’ve got a honey hole on a very steep WMA that holds a lot of deer. Its a relatively small burn, just one mountain top. The huge burns or clear cuts aren’t as good as small burns. The deer use the edges. Where the mature woods meet the new growth. A 400 acre burn only yields a few acres of actual “Edge”. A deer may not ever step foot into the dead middle of a large burn, why would they? They have everything they need on the outer perimeter, browse, cover, proximity to mature mast trees, etc. Lots or small burns and cuts in the 5-20 acre range are going to provide the most benefit.

Another point that nobody touches on is the lack of agriculture. Sure, there is some in the mountains, but it is concentrated down in the valleys, and the acreage is pitiful compared to the rest of the state. I see a lot of deer and turkey from the truck around the private land and agriculture. What does ag provide? Food, and edge habitat.

 

[TomC]

Really enjoyed the PBS show last night. Appreciate all that DNR is doing which is ALOT considering the under funding and resources they wish they had that I'm sure they don't. Thank you for all you do for ALL OF US!

I would assume that any scientific study would take into account and offset mortality by some percentage based on the collars and disruption of momma and their little ones. I'm sure it's minor but I'm guessing the PHD's are taking this account into their final stats.

 

[ddd-shooter]

How many folks are actually trapping coyotes, the number one fawn predator, on CNF? The bear bag limit was increased and you can shoot bears the length of deer season, but coyotes are still killing more fawns than bears.

The habitat won't change on CNF until hunters outnumber the opposition at USFS meetings and comment periods on timber management. There are groups whose sole purpose is to prevent timber management on CNF. That's how you step up to make a change. You have more power than DNR.

Perhaps y'all can open up coyote hunting year round on the cnf. I also second opening roads to allow trappers and hog hunters access.
I know nothing of trapping, but I usually kill a coyote and a bear every year.
I also comment on every comment period on every project. I also tell all my friends to comment, heck even my wife comments.
I would join a society that's opposite of Georgia Forest watch if y'all start one. Those guys and the Sierra Club torpedo everything.

 

[Buckman18]

How many folks are actually trapping coyotes, the number one fawn predator, on CNF? The bear bag limit was increased and you can shoot bears the length of deer season, but coyotes are still killing more fawns than bears.

The habitat won't change on CNF until hunters outnumber the opposition at USFS meetings and comment periods on timber management. There are groups whose sole purpose is to prevent timber management on CNF. That's how you step up to make a change. You have more power than DNR.

Good point!

I was curious to your thoughts regarding Warwoman. Warwoman has a habitat very similar to Chattahoochee or Swallow Creek, and Warwoman has coyotes, and a ton of hogs. I just started learning Warwoman last year, but there is much much less bear sign there than the other WMA'S I mentioned. But there is much more deer sign. It's very easy to find tracks, trails, rub lines, etc. The deer success rate is very high especially for a mtn wma. You actually jump deer while walking around, etc. Not so much on Chattahoochee and Swallow Creek. The only real difference I've noticed is much less bear sign. Now, I did kill a bear on Warwoman a couple years ago on the bear only hunt but that's because Killer Kyle and I scouted beforehand and found the bear first.

Assuming you agree with my observations and hunter success rate, why does Warwoman have more deer?

 

[Joe Brandon]

Is it the same situation on private land or is the population suffering everywhere?

I do not hunt in the mountains, but I can remember camping on Wildcat years ago to trout fish and walking up to some food plots at dark and seeing lots of deer and we would ride around the area before dark and see deer all over the private land.

I also remember in the early 90's seeing a group of hogs, I reported it to the GW and he only replied "Yall are wrong, we don't have hogs".

It is a shame that these areas have become basically useless for game.

Saw a nice buck in velvet by panther creek on my way home from Highlands NC. I have noticed more deer up in areas near up that way towards NEGA around Cornelia and Toccoa, surrounding CNF. But again there are large chunks of private farmlands all around. Those mountain areas seem to hold a good bit of deer, but the areas aren't in WMAs and border lots of private land. Definitely think private mountain lands hold deer much better than public.

 

[ChidJ]

Well, to answer the OPs question, I don’t have too many thoughts on it. Mother Nature is a hard force to change the course of. Especially by as small a group of people as the serious Georgia hunters are.

If coyote population is actually the main problem, if a problem at all, the state could always put bounties on them. I think I’ve heard of programs like that before and don’t know if they were very successful or not but if there was a bounty on coyotes, I’d be more motivated to shoot them. But they aren’t good to eat and don’t make impressive trophies so I wouldn’t go out of my way to burn a bullet on one.

Another off the wall idea might be to offer an exchange. Coyote Credits! For every coyote you turn in you get coyote credits which you could use to purchase license privileges or priority points for hunts you are interested in.