Frustrated with lost deer

[nvrfastenuf]

Hi everyone. I am a long time lurker on this forum but this is my first post. Please be gentle...

So for Christmas last year my wife bought me a new Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle based on the recommendation of a fellow friend who works in the gun industry and is a hunter as well. I love that woman. This is a compact .308 rifle, including a short 16.5" 1:10 twist barrel. I have been using a full length Remington 700 .30-06, so the GSR seems like a dream rifle for tree stands.

After Christmas I take one final trip of the season to the hunt camp with my new toy loaded up with Wally World blue box Federal 150gr Power-Shok cartridges and pretty soon I see my first victim. This deer was a medium size doe at about 100 yards. Bang - she only goes about 20 yards and falls. She was in plain view and kicked her legs around for a heck of a lot longer than I thought it should have taken to expire, but eventually did. When I went down I saw the entrance wound was right where I aimed behind the shoulder but my surprise was the exit - basically a .30 caliber hole with very little blood loss. Inside the lungs and even part of the heart were a mess, so there seemed to be good energy transfer, but it was the lack of a bloody exit wound that bothered me, and for good reason...

The following morning I shot a 2nd doe at about 80 yards. After that we tracked tiny dribbles of blood for over 50 yards when we lost the trail - a lost freakin' deer to finish the season... I started to try to figure out why and my thinking was that the short barrel on the GSR caused a loss of velocity which meant the bullet didn't have enough speed to expand and just punched a .30 caliber hole straight through. Probably not true, I don't have a chronograph so I am not sure of the actual velocity, but from what I have read the short barrel causes a velocity drop of about -100fps which shouldn't be a big deal at <100 yards. Rightly or wrongly, I blamed the cartridge/gun combination and started looking for a different cartridge.

I read about the Hornady Superformance ammo and the increased velocities and thought that might help my perceived short barrel challenge. Also I read good things about the expansion of the SST bullet. So for this year's season I grab a couple boxes of 150gr Superformance SSTs, get all sighted in, and head to the hunt camp. There I sit on opening day of rifle season and a big fat doe I have been watching on my trail cam for a couple months shows up right on time and steps out of the wood line for a perfect 50 yard broadside shot. I pop her right behind the shoulder and she runs back into the woods, but I figure with my new super-ammo I should have an easy blood trail. I get down there and by goodness there is no splash at the point of the shot and we only find a few dribbles right on the wood line where she ran back in. We looked for hours for more blood - nothing. Another freakin' lost dear, this time to open the season. Not good...

So here I am, a new rifle where I have shot 3 deer and only recovered 1 - and that one not particularly impressively. After some additional reading I understand that on short range shots that the SST can violently fragment and never exit the animal. Not sure if that is what happened or not, but I would still have expected to find the carcass - she must have run a long way. I don't get it. I *never* lost a deer with my Rem700 .30-06, and I never used anything fancy there either, just 150gr Core-Lokts. Needless to say I am ticked off.

I know it is a poor carpenter that blames his tools but something is going on here I don't understand. I don't think it is shot placement. I went out after we couldn't find the deer and I shot at a 50 yard target and from an unsupported position put 3 holes in 1.5 inches - I generally can hit what I aim at. The following day I chose not to take a late dusk shot at a very nice doe because I no longer had confidence that I wasn't going to end up on disappointing search in the dark. Now I am losing deer without taking a shot because I don't trust this rifle.

Any thoughts here as to what is going on? Barrel length? Bullet weight with my barrel twist? Velocity? Bullet selection?

 

[chadf]

Shot placement........
My $.02

 

[dwhee87]

X2 on shot placement. The barrel length, velocity, etc. is not going to make a big difference inside 100-150 yards.

 

[HandgunHTR]

I will have to agree that it is shot placement.

You stated that you had "basically a .30 caliber hole" as an exit on that first doe. I would suspect that it was closer to a .50-.75 caliber hole. Still not huge, but it looks small compared to what you were getting with your 30-06, correct? The main reason for that is that a .30 caliber cup and core bullet will expand to about twice its diameter when it performs correctly. When it impacts at over 2800 FPS like it was with your 30-06, the bullet was coming apart and exiting in multiple pieces, which usually ends up looking like one huge exit.

So, when shooting "right behind the shoulder", you are not hitting anything hard, and at the reduced velocity the bullet isn't coming apart, therefore you are getting the bullet performance that you should be getting.

My suggestion is that you should start shooting them a bit lower, so they leak better, or aiming a bit forward so you can get shoulder and bullet fragmenting. Either that or go high shoulder and anchor them where they stand.

If you want pictures of what I am talking about in terms of bullet performance, check out the 7TCU threads in the Handgun Hunting forum. There are pictures of my entry and exit wounds on a deer with a 7mm bullet that performed exactly as it should have. I have never lost a deer with my 7TCU. Some have run farther than I expected them to, but the blood trail was always easy to follow because the exit was low on the body.

 

[bass4fun]

One things for sure, this is the second thread today with Federal blue box cartridges mentioned regarding deer dying slowly. I can vouch for the Hornady SST ammo as being a superior round. I believe you when you're confident in your marksmanship...so I conclude your gun might be the issue. I hate to hear any story regarding lost deer. Good luck!

 

[quinn]

Shoot them in the neck they drop right there with little to no damaged meat!

 

[Waxwing]

Could be shot placement, but a thought on the Hornady bullet . .

I know better than to judge a bullet by a single experience, but I had a bad result with a 165gr Hornady Superformance (STT I think) shot out of a 30.06 that might be relevant.

I shot a smallish coastal GA deer just behind the shoulder and not too high from about 40 yards, maybe 50. The deer was standing broadside and part/most of the round went 90 degrees to the left and into the nearside rear leg. It actually broke the thigh bone and did not exit.

Only a small fragment exited the opposite side along the original trajectory of the bullet. When I skinned the deer it looked like the entry wound and no one would believe I that I'd shot the deer from the side I said/knew I did.

The bullet fragmented so bad that the rear ham and tenderloin were a mess and so was the near backstrap.

This deer took nearly all the energy of the bullet and hit the ground without delay. Your bullet could have fragmented as well, and, depending on where and how the fragments exited, the result could have been different.

 

[snookdoctor]

Sounds like the gun, and ammo, are fine.

 

[hobbs27]

Shot placement.....but if you have lost all confidence in ammo, go ahead and sight in a new box of your choosing. Confidence lost is no good.

 

[Milkman]

Nvrfastenuf,

Welcome to the fire !!!!! I wont offer any input to your question due to the fact there are many others who are helping you with that.

Since this is your first post I want to compliment you on your use of paragraphs and punctuation. It is a pleasure to read a post such as yours that can be understood and is readable. Obviously you are accustomed to writing.

My compliments to you. And welcome again to the Campfire !!!

 

[born2hunt99]

Go back to the corelokts! You will find the answer to the problem.

 

[SCDieselDawg]

I'll jump on the shot placement wagon also. I shoot the Blue Box Federals in several calibers. The only pic I don't have is the deer I killed with a 180 gr. from a .30-06

Here's a Doe I shot last season 80-90yds with a 150 gr. .270

A Doe from this season with a 100 gr. .243

 

[Jeff Phillips]

It's got to be the gun, I'll give you a crisp $100 bill for it!

I have killed a pile of deer with a .308 with the ammo you are using and it is my preference if the rifle likes it. That bullet has never let me down with many DRT's to it's credit.

 

[nvrfastenuf]

Ha! Thanks everyone. I know it isn't the gun, and either Federal Power-Shok or Hornady SST ammo is likely fine too. I know every shot is different and every deer is different. It is just that I have never lost a deer before, much less 2 in a row, and it is probably just coincidence that it is with a new rifle. I know that at these ranges a .308 will do anything a .30-06 will do, even if I am losing 100fps from the short barrel.

I will be out there again this weekend and give it another go. I may try a high shoulder shot or maybe even a neck shot just to get my mojo back.

 

[MountainMedic]

I shoot a ruger compact 308, with the 16.5" barrel, and also use the blue box federals. Killed a doe this year at 150yds, and the exit was the size of a softball! So I don't believe the ammo or short barrel is of much concern. Try shooting the next one in the shoulder, and let us know the results. good luck!

 

[Sidewinder1]

All firearms shoot certain ammo better than others, why this happens is a great mystery to man. It also makes for some of the fun in trying new firearms and ammo. As for our opininions on what is best , it is kind of like the ford vs. chevy argument, we all have our preference. Just my two cents on the issue at hand: I have experienced slight to no blood trails and very few deer that dropped on the spot using hornady sst ammo( I never lost a deer but had some tough tracking jobs, I am not knocking there product, I know others and have seen others have great success with it) My rifles seems to prefer and I get the best results form soft/rounded nose type bullets, such as remington core-lokts and monarchs from academy, I am sure the rifle is fine, just may need to tweak the ammo choice. Good luck in finding a solution.

 

[Rich M]

Someone mentioned shooting a "broadside deer" and finding the bullet in the ham. A 308 or 30-06 bullet is not going to deflect off a deer bone and change direction.

What is happening is the hunter is misjudging the angle of the deer when he shoots. I shot one (30-06) that was angling forward but looked like it was a lot more broadside - the 150 grain went in behind the shoulder and was lodged in the skin on the opposite hind quarter. DRT, but it begs the question of my perception.

A week later, 100 yards from the above scene, I was walking with a buddy when he shot a doe with a 243 100 gr. The deer looked broadside as well. He hit her just under the tenderloin and the bullet was lodged in the opposite rear ham (DRT). I thought she was more broadside but was once again wrong on the angle.

This weekend shot a large bodied deer at 30 yards with a 357 mag rifle. The bullet blew through the animal - blowing fingernail sized chunks of meat out with the blood. The bleeding was from the entry wound and not the exit wound. The exit was like a pencil wound because the bullet dumped all its energy upon impact. Significant blood trail of 100 +/- yards.

Your theory of the lack of expansion needs revision. The bullets will expand in the 1600 fps range - yours are going closer to 2400 fps at those ranges. Plenty of expansion. I shoot Federal and Remington, guys I hunt with shoot Winchester - all the soft point bargain loads. They work fine.

If you want 2 holes you have a couple options - Nosler Partition and Barnes Bullets. They are reliable and proven to give you 2 holes.

The 308 is a great round for white tails. You may want to shoot for the high shoulder shot on the next couple. They won't go far.

 

[dawgs511]

Nvrfastenuf,

Welcome to the fire !!!!! I wont offer any input to your question due to the fact there are many others who are helping you with that.

Since this is your first post I want to compliment you on your use of paragraphs and punctuation. It is a pleasure to read a post such as yours that can be understood and is readable. Obviously you are accustomed to writing.

My compliments to you. And welcome again to the Campfire !!!

Ain't that the truth! Some posts I read on here have me wondering if they ever took an English class.

Welcome aboard! Hope you're able to get your problem sorted out. That is definitely a sweet rifle, so don't lose any confidence in it.

 

[grunt0331]

I'll trade you my .300 for it and let you know how it does in the future.

 

[660griz]

Did your gun sight in o.k. with 150 gr bullets? Might want to go a bit bigger with the 1:10 twist. Shot placement sounds like the culprit and this could be the 'shotgun' pattern of your round caused by lack of stabilization. Just guessing though.
My 700 .308 with 20" bl., definitely favors heavier/larger bullets. I use 180 gr. Fusion.