Frustrated with lost deer

[nvrfastenuf]

From a stricly accuracy perspective I think the rifle itself prefers a heavier bullet. I have a Remington 700 5R .308 that I shoot Black Hills 175gr SMK Match through. I took some of that ammo to the range with my GSR and it liked it a lot - shot easily 0.75-1.5" off of the bench at 100yds. However, since short-barrel velocity was my concern regarding expansion, a heavier bullet would be even slower.

But with the SSTs if I am having the opposite problem where I am getting too much expansion and no exit, then a heavier 165gr might be interesting. I have also been considering the Fusion 165gr as well.

 

[hunter rich]

Ain't that the truth! Some posts I read on here have me wondering if they ever took an English class.

I think its more the product of the technology, texting, tweeting and plain ol' laziness.

 

[Cabin creek man]

I can sum up fixing your problem in one word corelokt buy yourself a box of green and gold corelokt in the biggest .308 bullet you can find and set it up for 100 yards and shoot a few deer. You will be supprised at how fast your confidence will grow with that gun.

 

[Cabin creek man]

Hey guys ya'll got to remember. This is not an english paper thats going to make or break your gpa. This is a bunch of guys and sometimes gals who want to share ideas and experiances about deer hunting. If text talk or bad grammer is part of it well welcome to the gon deer hunting fourm like it or hate it theres some things your not going to change. So ... HAVE FUN AND LEARN !!!

 

[striper slug]

I second the corelokt suggestion

 

[SCDieselDawg]

Go back to the corelokts! You will find the answer to the problem.

What's wrong with the Blue Box Federals (Power Shoks)?

 

[Brad30110]

I shoot a 30-06 165 gr SST bullet and it's a rare occasion they even run 1 step. The bulllet is designed for rapid expansion which delivers rapid energy transfer. The rifle, and ammo are fine. Shot placement is crucial in any caliber. I know it can't be demotivating to have this happen but just practice with your rifle. Shooting on a range at a piece of paper is different from a rushed shot unsupported from a stand 30 feet in the air. The rifle and bullet are a tool; and they will work. Just make sure you put that bullet in the sweet spot!

 

[Rich M]

The heavier bullets will expand just fine. They recommend big heavy bullets for big critters cause the extra weight helps the bullet keep going.

You shoot a 165 or 180 outta that gun and you will see more penetration. Try the 180 Core Lokts - cheap & easy, they will go all the way thru. No questions asked, even on a big northern deer.

 

[mikel m14]

If you had proper shot placement you would have three dead deer instead of one.

 

[NCummins]

If you had proper shot placement you would have three dead deer instead of one.

Yup. Something went wrong with your shot man. One deer I could see a fluke, but two tells us shot placement.

 

[HuntinDawg89]

Go back to the corelokts! You will find the answer to the problem.

I second the corelokt suggestion

I think so too.

I may try a high shoulder shot or maybe even a neck shot just to get my mojo back.

The high shoulder shot is far and away my favorite. I don't like tracking them. I've shot a pile of them high in the shoulder with .30-06 and .300 WinMag and they never take a step.

The heavier bullets will expand just fine. They recommend big heavy bullets for big critters cause the extra weight helps the bullet keep going.

The problem with this statement IMO is that Whitetail Deer, especially Southern Whitetails aren't considered "big critters" when talking about big game animals, bone density, thickness of hide and muscles, etc.

Did your gun sight in o.k. with 150 gr bullets? Might want to go a bit bigger with the 1:10 twist.

This is a consideration IMO. I don't know how the 1:10 twist compares to a typical bolt action .308. You could call Ruger and ask what they recommend.

I'll tell you what my experience has been.

Years ago (like 25 or so) Federal was boasting about Federal Premium ammunition with Nosler Partition projectiles. They spent a ton of advertising dollars to convince us the NP was the best thing since sliced bread and I bought it hook, line and sinker. I shot quite a few deer with my .30-06 with 180 grain Federal Premium Nosler Partitions and the performance from a blood trailing standpoint was horrible. The Nosler Partition is designed to have good penetration and controlled expansion on animals with thick hide, heavy muscles and big dense bones, etc. The problem is that the 180 grain Nosler Partition (or at least the one they were using back then) didn't meet enough resistance in a Whitetail Deer to make it expand.

The NP would zip right through those deer I was shooting without ever slowing down, and never met enough resistance to cause it to expand. This also means it did not deliver it's energy. This was before I accidentally stumbled on the wonders of the high shoulder shot BTW. Anyway, I would get a .30 caliber entry hole and a .30 caliber exit hole and no blood trail. I didn't lose any deer but I was very lucky to find some of them just by walking in the direction I saw them run and stumbling onto them.

Then a good friend of mine who is a sniper explained to me that bullets kill by shock and shock comes from fast moving projectiles slowing and expanding (or even stopping after sufficient penetration) inside the animal. He had me switch to 150 grain boat tail soft point bullets (Hornady Custom) and the difference was amazing. Big exit holes and much better blood trails. Eventually the gun didn't like Hornady Custom anymore and wouldn't group with them (maybe too hot of a load for my somewhat thin barreled "mountain rifle") and I switched to 150 grain Core Lokt bullets and have been extremely pleased...same performance on deer as the boat tail soft point in the Hornady Custom.

Now if you hit them with the high shoulder shot then it really doesn't matter as long as the bullet doesn't fragment IMO, but if you shoot a whitetail behind the shoulder, the thin hide, thin ribs and relatively short trip through the torso simply don't provide enough resistance to make some bullets like the NP expand and slow down and deliver their energy and you get the small exit hole and poor blood trail on a deer that dies but may not be found.

 

[denbow]

go to Barnes TTSX

 

[HuntinDawg89]

go to Barnes TTSX

My daughter killed her first deer the other day. She was shooting a .243 with an 80 grain Barnes Vortx (TTSX bullet). She broke the right shoulder and the bullet exited behind the left shoulder (on a 150 lb. deer). The exit wound was tiny and it was hard finding any blood. Fortunately the lack of a blood trail didn't matter because I heard him crash as soon as he went out of sight and finding him without a blood trail was a simple task.

This has me a little apprehensive about this bullet. I like a bigger exit hole and a good blood trail.

 

[Brad30110]

As for the 1:10 twist rate; it is faster than the typical deer rifle which is 1:12. The 1:10 will stabilize a heavier bullet better but should not effect accuracy in the 150 gr bullet. Your talking fractions of an inch difference. 150 gr is plenty for Georgia deer. Hogs will require a heavier more dense bullet. Remember that anything that leaves the deer is wasted energy. SST's deliver the best energy transfer hands down. I shot a 250 lb beast boar with 2 inch armor using SST bullets. It did not exit but it did cut the lights out! It's the only bulllet I'll shoot!

I would re look where you think the money spot is. Everyone has their idea of where the bullet should enter and exit. The perfect broadside shot doesn't always show it self. Remember to think about where the bullet will exit. I always go with half way up the shoulder, and just behind so I don't destroy a shoulder. Go too high and your hitting lung or non vitals. My 165 SST's leave some pretty disgusting blood spray behind the deer. The rifle is fine, the bullets are fine.

 

[meatseeker]

just a thought. My brother in law had a similar problem years ago. After lots of questions i found that about the time he pulled the trigger he was looking for the deer to fall and lowering his shots. Like i said just a thought.

 

[JWarren]

Shot placement with a new gun. You need to shoot this gun some more.

 

[nvrfastenuf]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. So generally it sounds like everyone thinks the issue is shot placement. I have always tried for a shot just behind the shoulder, trying not to spoil too much meat. Generally that ends up being a double lung shot with about half of the heart destroyed. In the past they do run, but not too far and there has always been a nice blood trail to follow.

I heard some good advice for that type of shot to hit them a little lower so the blood drains well and doesn't just pool in the chest cavity - I agree that could definitely help. I also heard several recommend the high shoulder shot which should save most of the meat on the shoulder but still breaks scapulas and the back, dropping them right there. I haven't used that shot before but I think I will definitely try that one too.

I also think I am going to go a bit heavier, probably 165gr, even if just because the 1:10 twist barrel likes heavier bullets. I will probably go with 165gr Superformance SSTs for now, but I may give the 165gr Fusion a try as well. Also, I had used Core-Lokts in my other rifle but they don't have a 165gr, but they do have a 180gr which should still shoot well with the fast barrel twist. I may try that one too. I guess this just means I will have to shoot a whole bunch more deer to find out what works best in this rifle!

 

[7Mag Hunter]

Shot placement......

Drop your aim point down to the heart area......If you hit the heart
the deer can't go far.....If the heart ain't pumping, the deer ain't
running......
No blood/oxygen getting to deers brain, it goes down....

 

[Waxwing]

Someone mentioned shooting a "broadside deer" and finding the bullet in the ham. A 308 or 30-06 bullet is not going to deflect off a deer bone and change direction.

What is happening is the hunter is misjudging the angle of the deer when he shoots.

I mentioned broadside. I'll grant that is an imperfect description. It could have been quartering slightly one way or another. Heck, for the sake of conversation, let's say the deer was looking straight at me. If, as you say, a 308 or 30.06 bullet is "not going to deflect", how might I understand the damage to the ham and broken rear leg AND the two holes on opposite sides at the front of the deer?

There were two holes in the front of the deer and severe damage in the back, damage that extended to the front hole where I shot into the deer. This is not conjecture about what a bullet does inside a deer. This what 4 pair of eyes looked at when the deer was opened up.

Really, what do you think did all that damage if there wasn't a deflection of at least part of the bullet?

I acknowledged in the first sentence of my post that I wouldn't judge a bullet by a single experience and I haven't. I've killed with the same since and been pleased with the outcome.

The point of my post in response to the OP was that we can't always know what happens to a bullet when it enters a deer - at least I can't - particularly if the deer gets away.

 

[Rich M]

The topic at hand was a bullet entering thru the shoulder or behind the leg and exiting the guts - that only happens if the deer is at an angle. Thought it was pretty clear. No .30 caliber bullet is gonna deflect like that in a deer.

My observations and comments reflect the 95% rule, not the 5% weird stuff. What is most likely to happen? Bullet failure or penetration along the line of the shot? That's all I was getting at.

My dad shot a 6 pt a long time ago - I was skinning it and found a bunch of blood shot & lead behind the shoulder - he had shot it high in the shoulder. Turned out the deer had been shot 4-5-6 times with a 22 right behind the shoulder and was carrying the slugs around. Never do know what you are gonna find.