Why does God allow Evil?

[ross the deer slayer]

God gave us free will, we tend to use that free will negatively and sin, sin grows larger and larger into horrible, evil things. Selfcontrol is EXTREMELY important in eliminating "some" evil..as humans cannot destroy all evil.

 

[Artfuldodger]

To say that God needs us to love him and to have a relationship with him, is to say that God is not self sustaining, self sufficient, self existent.

He needs nothing. He has the right to be God and he exercises his right. "Whatsoever the Lord pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places." (Psalm 135:6) "But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased." (Psalm 115:3)

I wouldn't go so far as to say God needs us but wanted us. We don't need children but they are kinda nice to have around.(usually)
God made us for his glory. Why is it some don't honor his wishes?

 

[hobbs27]

I wouldn't go so far as to say God needs us but wanted us. We don't need children but they are kinda nice to have around.(usually)
God made us for his glory. Why is it some don't honor his wishes?

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Ronnie T]

Ronnie, am I allowed to respond to or challenge this comment?

Of course you are.

 

[Ronnie T]

To say that God needs us to love him and to have a relationship with him, is to say that God is not self sustaining, self sufficient, self existent.

He needs nothing. He has the right to be God and he exercises his right. "Whatsoever the Lord pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places." (Psalm 135:6) "But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased." (Psalm 115:3)

I wouldn't go so far as to say God needs us but wanted us. We don't need children but they are kinda nice to have around.(usually)
God made us for his glory. Why is it some don't honor his wishes?

I agree Art.
It seems the primary reason for such drastic differences in Gemc's core belief of God, and every other believer I've known in my life, is whether God is the Creator, the Reason for all things, the Great Judge and Comforter. Or if God is actually the puppet master.

God is the creator of all things.. But God does not want to be your puppet master.
God has all understand and all knowledge.. But God does not want to be your puppet master.

"Whatsoever the Lord pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places." (Psalm 135:6) "But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased." (Psalm 115:3)... But God does not want to be your puppet master.

"But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive." (Genesis 50:20)..... But God does not want to be your puppet master.

"Nothing happens that God did not purpose in eternity. He does not have "oops" and "uh-oh" moments in his divine purpose and design."...... But God does not want to be your puppet master.

God moves in and among us all. He brings calamity, blessings, and success to us. By His power He brings it all to us. But He does not, and never intended to become the puppet master of a creation.

God seeks obedience, love, dedication, not Miss piggy's.

If I fail, it's my fault, and God is unhappy with me. God did not pull the string of my sin.... I did it.

But..... all good things are the result of God. I can do nothing good of my own accord beyond believing.

 

[piratebob64]

Nice question,
IMHO God inadvertly created Sin when he created man and gave us free will. We were given free will to ensure that we love God freely and with no strings. In order for this to happen ther had to be a negitive side that gave us a choice to the positive.

"God moves in and among us all. He brings calamity, blessings, and success to us. By His power He brings it all to us. But He does not, and never intended to become the puppet master of a creation"

I frown on those people who claim that GOD stopped their addiction or brought peace to their life.
This is contrary to what his intentions are concerning free will.
I feel God only provides the way ,"YOU" have to provide the means.
It is as simple as 2 dinners side by side one is Beef one is Chicken, are you ready at this point in your life to choose one Beef is God, chicken is Satan,
Here is my own point. I quit smoking 3 years ago I was felt I was ready years before that but never could just kick the habit.
Then I found about chantix, well I was presented with a choice IMHO from God, did I really want to quit or was I lying to myself. I chose to quit using the option that God had provided to me. Do I run around and preach God healed me from smoking"NO" I say god provided a choice at a pivotal time in my life and I made the choice to accept option 1 instead of option 2.
IMHO same goes for every addict out there. They are presented a choice everyday 1change or 2 remain 99.9 choose 2.

 

[gordon 2]

John 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

Phillipian 3:3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh--
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I think the problem with evil concerns the confidence we (man) can put in the flesh which is not the same confidence God put in the flesh from day one.

I would say God does not allow evil, but because of His mercy and understanding He allows for us (man) to carry on. Evil is the collateral damage, the adverse effect of self-pride in man the animal and not as much confidence in the original created man who can worship by the Spirit of God. These are two very different creatures...which The Cross attempts to reconcile.

The instinct in man to cleave to the Tree of the Knowledged of Good and Evil and solving problems by death and denials is strong--even to this day. Unfortunately the turn to the Tree of Life starts by a rock bottom self-kick in the pants, and/or fortunately in being born, or reborn, for our Christ-- to it!

 

[pstrahin]

God wants us to choose Him over evil.

I cannot explain nor comprehend the providence of God. However, if God controlled every aspect of your life, to include keeping you from being tempted by evil, then you would not grow spiritually. God allows us to be tempted so we can grow and to strengthen our faith.

1 Corinthians 10:13 comforts me.

No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

 

[StriperAddict]

Nice question,
IMHO God inadvertly created Sin when he created man and gave us free will. We were given free will to ensure that we love God freely and with no strings. In order for this to happen ther had to be a negitive side that gave us a choice to the positive.

"God moves in and among us all. He brings calamity, blessings, and success to us. By His power He brings it all to us. But He does not, and never intended to become the puppet master of a creation"

I frown on those people who claim that GOD stopped their addiction or brought peace to their life.
This is contrary to what his intentions are concerning free will.
I feel God only provides the way ,"YOU" have to provide the means.
It is as simple as 2 dinners side by side one is Beef one is Chicken, are you ready at this point in your life to choose one Beef is God, chicken is Satan,
Here is my own point. I quit smoking 3 years ago I was felt I was ready years before that but never could just kick the habit.
Then I found about chantix, well I was presented with a choice IMHO from God, did I really want to quit or was I lying to myself. I chose to quit using the option that God had provided to me. Do I run around and preach God healed me from smoking"NO" I say god provided a choice at a pivotal time in my life and I made the choice to accept option 1 instead of option 2.
IMHO same goes for every addict out there. They are presented a choice everyday 1change or 2 remain 99.9 choose 2.

Certainly there are times God comes in and delivers an addict miraculously from their addiction, weather drugs, porn, alcohol, food, depressive thinking, co-dependence, etc, etc.

And there are times an addicts' thorn in the flesh remains. He learns to lean on the Lord, as Paul did.

In spite of the old mantra: "God helps those who help themselves", an attitude of dependency is expedient in both cases.

 

[gemcgrew]

I agree Art.
It seems the primary reason for such drastic differences in Gemc's core belief of God, and every other believer I've known in my life, is whether God is the Creator, the Reason for all things, the Great Judge and Comforter. Or if God is actually the puppet master.

God is the creator of all things.. But God does not want to be your puppet master.
God has all understand and all knowledge.. But God does not want to be your puppet master.

"Whatsoever the Lord pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places." (Psalm 135:6) "But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased." (Psalm 115:3)... But God does not want to be your puppet master.

"But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive." (Genesis 50:20)..... But God does not want to be your puppet master.

"Nothing happens that God did not purpose in eternity. He does not have "oops" and "uh-oh" moments in his divine purpose and design."...... But God does not want to be your puppet master.

God moves in and among us all. He brings calamity, blessings, and success to us. By His power He brings it all to us. But He does not, and never intended to become the puppet master of a creation.

God seeks obedience, love, dedication, not Miss piggy's.

If I fail, it's my fault, and God is unhappy with me. God did not pull the string of my sin.... I did it.

But..... all good things are the result of God. I can do nothing good of my own accord beyond believing.

I am familiar with the puppet, puppet master and robot rebuttal. It is the same tactic preferred by atheist. Asath prefers "made one dog to pet and another one to kick". This is nothing more than man's feeble attempt to overthrow God and to rob him of all Authority and Glory. There is no middle ground between the absolute Sovereignty of God in all things, and atheism. Either everything is by God's eternal design, or there is no God.

 

[centerpin fan]

Asath prefers "made one dog to pet and another one to kick".

... but isn't that exactly your position?

I see no difference between the God you believe in and the God Asath does not believe in.

 

[gtparts]

... but isn't that exactly your position?

I see no difference between the God you believe in and the God Asath does not believe in.

Hey, CF. That's the way I see their positions, also. Same stipulations or criteria, different conclusions. I am almost convinced that they are both right..... not.

 

[rockman7]

some good answers here. but i'd like to add my 2 cents.

first to addresss isa. 45:7 (a favorite of athiests). the english translation gets a little sideways here. in "i create evil" the hebrew for "create" is "bara" which means to bring into existence or bring about.the hebrew for" sin" here is "ra" which is translated as "calamity", "greif", "sorrow","trouble","distress", and in this verse "evil". never anywhere is it translated as "sin". the idea, as in other scriptures like it are that God has created the laws of reaping and sowing, as well as penalties for thier voilation.and evil will come when these laws are broken.if men sin and reap for it it is not Gods doings but man.this idea that God brings sin and death upon us just because He can/is God is not found scripturally anywhere. He loves us and has try'd from day one to teach us such.

as for the original op's question.... its because He has no choice but to allow it. true ....He could close this whole shootin match down and start over . but, after a while He'd be back right here again.His law of sin =death is one even He cannot overcome(God must follow His own laws being the just and true judge He is)

the original sin did not come by way or adam as some think. this guy we call satan was once called "lucifer". Gods right hand man, he was perfect .his story is found in isa. 14 and ezek.28.this sin, and all like it are nothing but pure rebellion plain and simple. this rebellion leads to all the ickky bad stuff, which is none of God's doins.

my son once asked me "dad....how did a perfect being sin?". my answer is that everyone, including angels, are given free will.but unlike us God did not give angels free will nor ever desired to fellowship with them as He chooses with us.also God does not "micro manage anything (He sat back and had adam name the animals....that sound like "micro management?)we can follow God and recieve life or we can follow our own course and disreguard Him and take the outcome.

did God know this would happen? sure He did!!! and as i stated abouve even had God stopped it right there it would only have happened again and again.anytime anyone is given power, riches, ect. and chooses to disregard God they end up following the path of lucifer(what you think your any different??? lol)

God knowing this had a plan "from the foundation of the world" to counter this. His creation man (you and i) was His ace in the hole.
God too knew we would go the same route, but unlike lucifer God included a thing called "grace" for us.thru His son and His redemptive act we are given a second chance.

thry this "second chance" God will have under His authority a people ruling and rienging with Him who have seen and experienced first hand what the product and outcome of sin bring.no other creature in the universe besides us knows first hand how crappy it gets(sotra like a man might know how painful childbirth is but only a woman can know).

did God forsee all this? yup!! but it was the only way He could get things right. that being a people made in His image , on the same plane as Him, who could fellowship with Him that He could trust to eventually see that this creation of His is ran the way He wants.

 

[Ronnie T]

Please allow me to ramble just a bit concerning why God might allow evil.

God made mankind in His image. In my reasoning, God created mankind that God might have beings that He could relate to. We think in ways that no other created beings do. We love and we hate. We have a personality. We are teachable. Able to make extreme choices that other animals and fish are not able to do.

On one hand I say that evil is nothing more than the absence of godliness. But I'm reminded that Satan exists. Satan can have an influence upon us.

God wants us to choose Him. For God to receive what He wants (love and honor), there must be at least two choices for us. For us to choose God, or not to choose God.
Hebrews chap 11 (faith chapter) exhibits that choice being made. People who gave their lives; people who were sawed in half; people who left riches in order to be godly.

There has to be at least two options for a choice to be made.

 

[rockman7]

a good analogy for why God allows things to happen is like this.

when you hand your car keys over to your sixteen year old you know more than likely whats gunna happen.....so why do it?

because you love your kid and know that altho something more than likely will go wrong you do it none the less because you want your kid to grow up and learn sound discision making processes. you can't learn sitting around a tv playing video games

does that mean if he hits anouther car its your fault???the insurance company may see it that way to a point but the dmv certainly wont

 

[Artfuldodger]

a good analogy for why God allows things to happen is like this.

when you hand your car keys over to your sixteen year old you know more than likely whats gunna happen.....so why do it?

because you love your kid and know that altho something more than likely will go wrong you do it none the less because you want your kid to grow up and learn sound discision making processes. you can't learn sitting around a tv playing video games

does that mean if he hits anouther car its your fault???the insurance company may see it that way to a point but the dmv certainly wont

Reminds me of the old saying "If you love something, set it free"

 

[bullethead]

The New American Standard Bible provides a more accurate look of the Hebrew words used:

The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.

So how do they differentiate the word when it actually says "evil" in that version of the Bible? Maybe it means calamity then too??

"rah" in the KJV Bible occurs 663 times. 431 times it is translated as "evil." The other 232 times it is translated as "wicked," "bad," "hurt," "harm," "ill," "sorrow," "mischief," "displeased," "adversity," "affliction," "trouble," "calamity," "grievous," and"misery.

Which is the "right" Bible? Which is the "right" translation? Are all the other words that are used for "rah" exact for the verse and just in the one I provided wrong?

 

[piratebob64]

So how do they differentiate the word when it actually says "evil" in that version of the Bible? Maybe it means calamity then too??

"rah" in the KJV Bible occurs 663 times. 431 times it is translated as "evil." The other 232 times it is translated as "wicked," "bad," "hurt," "harm," "ill," "sorrow," "mischief," "displeased," "adversity," "affliction," "trouble," "calamity," "grievous," and"misery.

Which is the "right" Bible? Which is the "right" translation? Are all the other words that are used for "rah" exact for the verse and just in the one I provided wrong?

To count the number of terms in a bible that has been rewritten and meanings lost in translation IMHO a bad thing to do.
The right thing to do is ask questions of others to help you along in understanding your beliefs. Reading and the bible is one thing but having open disscussions about it and its meaning is another and that is why I think the bible was written.Gee if we count words then His name should Jahova/God as Johava is mentioned what 7000 +/- times!
Just using that as an example?

 

[bullethead]

To count the number of terms in a bible that has been rewritten and meanings lost in translation IMHO a bad thing to do.
The right thing to do is ask questions of others to help you along in understanding your beliefs. Reading and the bible is one thing but having open disscussions about it and its meaning is another and that is why I think the bible was written.Gee if we count words then His name should Jahova/God as Johava is mentioned what 7000 +/- times!
Just using that as an example?

The word for God should mean God, it is clear and understandable.

The word for evil should mean evil, not one of a dozen translations, in one of dozens of Bible versions, that can be substituted as the printer sees fit.

People argue that the KJV was the only reliable translation in the English language, because it was translated by the godliest of translators from the best Greek manuscripts.

 

[rockman7]

there are many mistranslation in the bible (from hebrew and aramaic to english).the problem is the original text used over 12,000 words . our english versions use only about 6,000. for example the word "eshtar" was mistranslated as "easter"(actually a pagan holiday).

this does not invalidate our present day versions one bit .remember we are told to "study" to find aproval.if a scripture seems wrong, out of harmony with the core beliefs it simply means "you " need to investigate its true intent.


personally i enjoy nonbelievers attempts to discredit scripture.....it makes me a better student and disciple.no offence bullethead but we were warned in corinthians that the "deeper things of God" could only be understood by true believers guided soley by the Spirit". in other words some will see it,just aint gunna make hay about it, and some will make it thier job to discredit it.even we believers have different ideas about scripture.... but in the end Gods word is right and we're basically all still babes bein fed milk(stoopid)