Loss of Salvation

New Christian here (as of March of this year). Have joined and regularly attend (even the last three Sundays during bow season and very good hometown Southern Baptist church (Ebeneezer Baptist here in Cordele).

I just go through with a new discipleship class and now am attending a Basics for Baptists type class. Great class as I have always wondered about the differences between Christian religions.

One thing that has puzzled me is this:

How can a man lose his salvation once he has accepted Jesus as his personal lord and savior?

I know some Christian religions think you can do this (Methodist and some of the Pentacostal maybe?).

I find it hard to believe that a man can "undo" anything that God has given you. Also, that also sounds like a more "cruel" God to allow something like that to be an option. Also, you are born into a new creation when you accept Jesus, how can you lose that and be reborn again?.

I find plenty of scripture about salvation through Jesus, but none about losing it. Also, if you lose it, how do you get it back (since you have already accepted Jesus)?.

I am very confident in my faith and the Baptist religion. Just wanted some other opinions on my question.

Thanks in advance.

Your issue is another one of those where I feel differently than my Baptist upbringing. My family and church says you can not loose this salvation. I think you can. You could say somebody really was not saved if they turn against God. But as with anything human you can have a change in direction for what ever reason(s). Of course as usually, I have no scripture for this, just my belief!

Grace is a gift given in Love from God through His Son, Jesus.

Do you think He would take such a gift back from you?

Is God an "Indian-giver"?

Jeff,
I don't look at it as Him taking it back but as me giving it back or choosing to no longer follow. As I said, my church says if you choose not to follow then you were never saved to begin with? As the Bible teaches us, the way is hard. It is not easy to follow! Some can not stay with it! Again this is only my belief and I have been wrong before.

I definitely don't argue or debate religion or a person's salvation. Christ died on the Cross one time, that finished it. If you have ever been saved you cannot be saved again. That settles it for me.

Hey PWAlls,

You may be a new Christian, but in my book you have it figured out. We can't earn salvation (it is a free gift!!!!!). Therefore, once we truly repent and ask Jesus to come into our life and save us, we are forever saved. We can't dis-earn it by our behavior. If that was the case, we would all be in trouble.

Also, when we accept Christ, we are born again (or born spiritually). And the last time I checked, you can't undo a birth.

The bible says Christ died once for all. His death covered all our sins-past, present, and future. We may lose our fellowship with him b/c of our sin, but not our standing as one of his children.

Thanks for the post.

Security seems to be the concern of many today. Much is made of National Security and Social Security. It is seldom dealt with, but the Bible has much to say about security of the believer.

In John 10:28 the Apostle John wrote: "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand". Peter added in 1 Peter 1:5, "(We)who are kept by the power of God thru faith unto salvation ready to be revealed at the last time (or end time)". Matthew added this to the mix, "and I say unto thee, that thou are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hades shall not prevail against it". Matt 16:18

I believe that Eternal Security is a clear teaching of Scripture. Salvation is of God. When God does something, he does not do it halfway.

The problem (if there is a problem) stems from people having an emotional experience that soon passes without them truly experiencing what is referred to as the new birth. It is said of these that they have lost their salvation. One cannot lose something that they never possessed.

When one is "born again" the old self passes away, and behold "all things" become new. New habits, new language, new friends, and a new outlook becomes the order of the day. 1 John 5:12 states "He that hath the son hath life, and he that hath not the son of God hath not life". It cannot be said with greater clarity.

Vernon

SO, as a young man I accept Christ. I lived as he would want me to for many years. I taught Sunday school and became a Deacon. As I get older I start to "hang" with the wrong crowd. I don't know why, I just moved away from God. I, while on drugs, kill someone one night. I never ask for forgivness as I lay there and die by leathal injection. So I go on to be with Christ because I once accepted Christ? Or, was I never saved to begin with? I don't buy that I was never saved. I changed my life, I did as God said but one day I just changed. I am not trying to argue, just understand. I know I am viewing this from a mortal mind but I just can't see me getting to Heaven under these situations. These are fictional situations!

I would say that if you got on the wrong side and killed someone or committed any kind of sin that if you were truly saved you would be under so much conviction from the HOLY SPIRIT that you could not stay on the other side for long. If you committ sin and never felt remorse then you might remain on the wrong side of life and one could question if you were ever really saved. NUTT

Randy, you make it difficult. I don't have all the answers, but I can tell you this much. God hates sin. Unrepented sins will separate man from God for eternity. God sent his Son to be the propitiation (atoning sacrifice) as a clear means of dealing with the matter of sin.

All men are sinners, Christians as well as non-Christians. The only difference is that the Christian has an advocate who maketh intercession in our behalf. When our sins are dealt with in this manner, they are removed and God remembers them no more. It is as though they never occurred.

Back to your example, and it is a good one for the simple reason that it happens. If this person was my friend, my neighbor, or my blood brother, I would be greatly concerned for his salvation. Aren't we glad that we will not be required to sit in judgement in such a case. God on the other hand has at his hand all of the facts regarding a life.

Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. It does not come by way of works (living a good life, teaching a SS Class, or being a Deacon). It comes by way of making a public profession of faith, accepting him as Lord of your life, being obedient to Christ's commands, and sharing one's faith with others.

Salvation is for keeps. It begins at the moment that we are saved and last for eternity. All of this is contingent upon it being genuine. Christ is able to save to the uttermost, as many as come unto him.

Vernon

That is why I am here Vernon! To ask those hard questions. : These are the kinds of things I wrestle with on occaision. Yes I know there is faith and maybe some time that is the only answer, "have faith." It is just that in my growth, I come up with these questions that I sometimes can not put my hand on in the Bible! I like to hear others opinions/thoughts. Just trying to GROW!

I started to ask another one here but will not hijack this thread. I'll start another.

Thanks for your replies.

Randy,
If you accepted Christ as your savior and was saved, then I don't see how you can do what you said in your example. When you are saved, you change. That change is the evidence of your salvation. You die to your old nature and begin (or are born into) your new nature. Your new nature wants to be a good Christian and follow the ways of Christ and his teachings. You can't just change back. The Holy Spirit within you would not let you do that just all of a sudden or on a whim. I would have to question whether you were truly saved or truly gave your life to Christ in your example below.

Just my thoughts.

Luke 8:13 makes clear the fact that believers can lose their salvation. It says some "believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away." Revelation 22:19 says "If anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life, and in the holy city." How can someone have a share in that city if they are not saved? Right here it says that it CAN be taken away.

There are numerous other passages taht suggest the same - John 15:6, 1 Peter 1:16; Hebrews 12:14, Luke 14:16-24.

It sounds like some of you are precribing the the idea that a person can repeat a prayer and never live in faith or obedience - two foundational principals of salvation - but rather live in sin and still have a part of eternal life with God.

Why even take a chance? Some people want to know where the boundary is so they can live as close to it as possible so they can sneak in. Don't be deceived; God is not mocked. I do believe you can lose your salvation, but I also say that it is very hard to do without trying to. However, obedience to God's word is fundamental to the "Christian" life. If you live a life of obedience to the Word, you have nothing to worry about.

Sitting on both sides of this fence are many notable Godly men. If ya'll are interested, I have a list of scriptures for both sides of this fence......

The No Way and The Yes You Can
The Can't Lose It and The Can Lose It

Throw out the "Once Saved, Always Saved" phrase because there is a wrong thought process behind/about that statement.

This is one of those issues that is questioned continually. It requires indepth study by the individual and allowing The Holy Spirit to talk to them and show them.

What do I believe? One things for sure......................if you never had it, you can't lose it.

There are serious arguments on both sides and there are some pitfalls as well.
If someone believes that he can lose his salvation then he might fall into the error of trying to keep his salvation by what he does. This is a serious error (Gal. 3:1-3). On the other hand, if he believed he could not lose his salvation then, he might fall into the error of sinning willfully because he believes it can’t be lost no matter how much he sins. The proper understanding of salvation is that works play no part in it (Rom. 4:5), that it is a free gift (Rom. 6:23), and that it is received by faith (Eph. 2:8-9). Once we are saved we are to live a holy life (1 Thess. 4:7).
Whether you believe you can or cannot lose your salvation does not affect your salvation, this is important to understand. That is, your salvation is dependent upon accepting Jesus as Savior, trusting in His sin sacrifice, and looking to no one and nothing else. Your salvation isn’t dependent upon whether or not you think it is possible to lose your salvation.
There are on the surface good verses for both sides of the argument. There are verses that seem to suggest that it is possible to lose your salvation: 2 Pet. 2:1; Gal. 5:4; Heb. 10:26; 6:4_6; Ps. 69:28, and there are also verses that seem to say you cannot lose your salvation: John 10:27_28; Heb. 13:5; Matt. 7:21_23; 1 John 2:19; Rom. 8:38_39.
I personally do not believe one can lose his/her salvation, a person cannot undo what God has done. A person's salvation IS a free gift from God, it was made possible by Jesus and not by anything we (as humans) can or have done. Remember, as some have previously stated, once a person is saved, that person is a new creation. As Paul puts it "I no longer live, Jesus Christ now lives in me".
On the day of judgment when some seek salvation based upon their works Jesus will say to them, "I never knew you" (Matt. 7:21-23). They were never known, that is, they were never saved although they appeared, from the human perspective, to be saved. Jesus says that His sheep will "never perish but have eternal life" (John 10:28). How can eternal life be eternal if it can be lost particularly when Jesus said that they will never perish. Also, Paul says that nothing will be able to separate us from the love of God (Rom. 8:38-39).

I have a question.

You have a child. That child is a good child for a while, then disobeys, does all kind of things that are wrong, you dis own them, they dis own you and all the things that sometimes happen.

But wait a minute. It doesn't matter what they have done, they are still your child. You can't dis own them. No matter what a childs does they are still your child. Same with God. If you are his you are and if you not you not. Now there are consequences of sin or disobedience, but it is not eternal separation from God for a believer. I agree with a former post that said if you're truly saved you will not do those sins like murder, etc. I still mess up ocasionally, but it is a mess up and not intentional sin. The flesh sins but the spirt does not. I, being a Christian do not entertain the thoughts of the world. The Holy Spirit keeps me from intentional sinning. There are only 2 kinds of people in this world. Saints and aints. Lost or Found. Blind or seeing. You are one of the other and not floating in between every time you sin. Now salvation does not give you a license to sin.

John chapter 17 says a lot, so does John 3:16 and following.

I am a believer in eternal security.

Question to those who believe you can lose you salvation. Why do you walk around with that burden on you? The Son came to set you free and if you are in Him you are free indeed. How can you have any peace? The peace that passeth all understanding is the peace in the heart of a believer. There will not be peace on earth until Jesus returns and establishes His Kingdon, but a believer is to have peace in his heart, despite all the things that are going on around him/her. If I had to worry every moment about whether or not I was going to heaven or ****, I would just as soon be lost and live like the world and die and got to **** with out worrying about it. Life is too short to live in misery and defeat.

Hope I haven't rambled too much. I have tried to say a lot in a few words but it is hard to explain and to and even harder to understand.

I have an answer! I don't walk around with that burden it is a question that I have. I just have a hard time (call it lack of faith, some do) believing that I or anybody else can be saved and when we turn away from God and do what we want to do and never repent He will let me in any way! I guess that is just me being mortal?

hpurvis said:

Question to those who believe you can lose you salvation. Why do you walk around with that burden on you? The Son came to set you free and if you are in Him you are free indeed. How can you have any peace? The peace that passeth all understanding is the peace in the heart of a believer. There will not be peace on earth until Jesus returns and establishes His Kingdon, but a believer is to have peace in his heart, despite all the things that are going on around him/her. If I had to worry every moment about whether or not I was going to heaven or ****, I would just as soon be lost and live like the world and die and got to **** with out worrying about it. Life is too short to live in misery and defeat.

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Hilton,

You know my true friendship with and respect for you, so please know that I am not being confrontational. The Bible is very clear on living a life of obedience and holiness. I do not consider the sacrafice that Jesus made to be a common thing; that is, I do not live my life like I want to knowing that all I have to do is ask forgiveness. Hebrews 10:26-27 says, "For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries."

Salvation is not something that is a delicate matter that we must be careful to hold onto. I believe that it is very hard to lose your salvation. But the Bible is clear as I noted in my previous post and backed up with scripture that we can go from redemption to destruction. Those scriptures are very clear.

But aside from the fact of whether or not you can lose it, why even try? With all God gave for me on Calvary, it is no burden to try to please Him with a life of obedience. I have decided and live my life by the fact that there is NOTHING good for me outside of God's will for my life. Too many people use the twisted teachings and twist the Bible to validate their unholy lifestyles, and I feel that the teachings on eternal salvation has given too many people what they feel is a free pass into heaven, so they can go live however they want to. God's concern is not with what is confortable or easy for us. His concern is redemption. Period.

Keith,
You actually said it better than I could. That is my whole question really. I was brought up in the Baptist religion and told you could not loose your salvation. However, I have been told that if you strayed from God, you were not saved to start with. That seems to be the defense.

I truly believe that some people do get saved and for what ever reason turn their backs on God. I have a hard time believing that if they do and they do not turn around and repent before death they can not get to Heaven. I am not talking about those of us who sin and ask for forgivness on a daily basis. I am talking about those that literally turn their backs on God and never turn around again. I believe that there are those that are truely saved at one time but then turn their backs on God for some reason?

i feel if you are truly saved--and God knows what's in you heart and whether you honestly want to accept Him--you will always be saved.

i do believe there are those who say they are saved but who God might disagree with on that point!