All About God

[gordon 2]

When I say as I would mean as a child " Our Father who art in heaven." I would mean God and so our Saintly* ( *without sin or injustice) Father common to all as opposed to my earthly father and the earthly fathers of others.

So Our Father who art in heaven." is our designation for our spiritual father, and so God. And we agree that he made us his legitimate children by adoption. It is a designation of who we are in Christ and who Christ is in the Father. God calls us to be His children.

"Our Father who art in heaven" is our finest protector who so loves all the children all over the world that none are of sufficient shame as to be forbidden to walk up right to Him and to be embraced.

So "Our Father who art in heaven" is not about being in one place. It is about being alive in relationship and a relationship that goes both ways. It was God's will to call us to be sons, it is his call for us, and then it was our will to know Him Father and respond by placing all our trust in God--our Father.

"He called a little child and had him stand among them. And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven."

Just as the little child was commanded to stand among them, and obeyed, so was Abram commanded to "go to where I will show you" and likewise Abram obeyed :

The LORD said to Abram: "Go forth from the land of your kinsfolk and from your father's house to a land that I will show you. "I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you; I will make your name great, so that you will be a blessing.

 

[Artfuldodger]

When I say as I would mean as a child " Our Father who art in heaven." I would mean God and so our Saintly* ( *without sin or injustice) Father common to all as opposed to my earthly father and the earthly fathers of others.

So Our Father who art in heaven." is our designation for our spiritual father, and so God. And we agree that he made us his legitimate children by adoption. It is a designation of who we are in Christ and who Christ is in the Father.

"Our Father who art in heaven" is our finest protector who so loves all the children all over the world that none are of sufficient shame as to be forbidden to walk up right to Him and to be embraced.

So "Our Father who art in heaven" is not about being in one place. It is about being alive in relationship and a relationship that goes both ways. It was God's will to call us to be sons, it is his call for us, and then it was our will to know Him Father and respond by placing all our trust in God--our Father.

"He called a little child and had him stand among them. And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven."

But Jesus was praying to his Father as well as our Heavenly Father. It just seems like a Heavenly Father would reside in Heaven?
Then Jesus said "thy kingdom come; thy will be done; on earth as it is in heaven."

To hear Jesus talk it sounds like he knew exactly where his Father was.

 

[gordon 2]

There is an argument within the faiths that Heaven and Paradise are not places, not physical or spiritual places. To say they are places is a convenience of language and rather these two "places" are more in fact "states of the soul's being". Example: I could say, "Sandy's soul is to one of these three different "states of being" which is Paradise or Heaven or Sleep." So I can say Sandy is in Heaven. Or I can say Sandy is in Paradise. In both cases I don't mean that Sandy is to a place.

The Father is always in a heavenly state of being. Perhaps that is what presently distinguishes us from seeing Him as he is. We can be very "worldly" which does not mean we are of a place but rather in a "state of being".

Language is a hard tool to spiritually explain things. Things spiritually discerned if communicated by language loose the fullness of the discernment's effect and meaning onto all the soul. Perhaps. Perhaps that is why praying "in tongues" is not a bad idea.

 

[Artfuldodger]

There is an argument within the faiths that Heaven and Paradise are not places, not physical or spiritual places. To say they are places is a convenience of language and rather these two "places" are more in fact "states of the soul's being". Example: I could say, "Sandy's soul is to one of these three different "states of being" which is Paradise or Heaven or Sleep." So I can say Sandy is in Heaven. Or I can say Sandy is in Paradise. In both cases I don't mean that Sandy is to a place.

The Father is always in a heavenly state of being. Perhaps that is what presently distinguishes us from seeing Him as he is. We can be very "worldly" which does not mean we are of a place but rather in a "state of being".

Language is a hard tool to spiritually explain things. Things spiritually discerned if communicated by language loose the fullness of the discernment's effect and meaning onto all the soul. Perhaps. Perhaps that is why praying "in tongues" is not a bad idea.

I can picture that belief in my head, that neither are an actual "place." In my mind, even if Heaven or Paradise are just spiritual, I envision a "place." But I do understand that some people may see it as not.

 

[Artfuldodger]

In traditional Christianity, Heaven is considered a state or condition of existence (rather than a particular place somewhere in the cosmos).
I guess I'm not a traditional Christian, lol. If this is true then God has no abode so to speak. He has no actual throne. God has no actual eyes or hands. No mind either, these are just words man uses to describe a spiritual God.
If everything is metaphorical as traditional Christianity thinks then when we die a physical death, out spirits will be with God in a spiritual state or condition. Will we be able to see everything and be everywhere just as God is when we die a physical death? If God is everywhere in a state, then it seems like we will be too when we become only spirits.

The only way I see this as happening is if Jesus ascended as only a spirit, we will too, and as the Preterist believe, that spiritual resurrection will be the only resurrection we will have as well.
Then we will become one with God in that state of being(Heaven) and our existence of eternal life will not be in an actual "place."

If Heaven exist where God is, then God is Heaven. And that therefore is a state and not a place. And God's house and mansions are just metaphors for this state and not a place. It's all just symbolic language and we'll never get to see God face to face.

 

[gordon 2]

In traditional Christianity, Heaven is considered a state or condition of existence (rather than a particular place somewhere in the cosmos).
I guess I'm not a traditional Christian, lol. If this is true then God has no abode so to speak. He has no actual throne. God has no actual eyes or hands. No mind either, these are just words man uses to describe a spiritual God.
If everything is metaphorical as traditional Christianity thinks then when we die a physical death, out spirits will be with God in a spiritual state or condition. Will we be able to see everything and be everywhere just as God is when we die a physical death? If God is everywhere in a state, then it seems like we will be too when we become only spirits.

The only way I see this as happening is if Jesus ascended as only a spirit, we will too, and as the Preterist believe, that spiritual resurrection will be the only resurrection we will have as well.
Then we will become one with God in that state of being(Heaven) and our existence of eternal life will not be in an actual "place."

If Heaven exist where God is, then God is Heaven. And that therefore is a state and not a place. And God's house and mansions are just metaphors for this state and not a place. It's all just symbolic language and we'll never get to see God face to face.

Well you started with Promise, but then you got on a donkey.

What is What and Where is Where and Who Can Be There?

Before man was created God created light and by that light plants grew. And then the sun and the moon were made. And then animals and man were made.

Some things out of the first light are real, they are not metaphor. And you and I know that things the sun makes are many and real.

Time in the first light cannot be as in the second, simply that we tell times by the sun and the moon and distance by the speed of light. These were absent at the "creation stage" of the first light...

Note that it's so happens that God is present when the first light was that marked no time or distance and He is present when the second light was, the one we stepped into or came to kicking and balling, needing all assistance to survive.

What is common to both states is that God is present and in the second state that He tabernacles with us.

When we speak of Heaven, Paradise and H*LL we describe them with the palette of time and the distances due the light of the sun.

Note the description for the New Jerusalem in Revelations and what will power it. It's not very big and you and I won't be the only ones there. There will be trees and rivers and gems and all and all it will be with excellent neighborhoods.

 

[BanjoPicker]

God is Omniscient

The question of the Omniscient of God is also misunderstood. The Bible makes many simple statements that limit God’s knowledge. There would be no sense to such passages if we do not believe them literally. There is no meaning to them if we take them figuratively. There was no object in God saying such things about Himself if they were untrue. God gets to know things concerning the free moral actions of men as others do Gen. 6:5-7; 11:5-7; 18:21; 22:12; 2 Chron. 16:9; Zech. 4:10;Job 12:22; 24:23; Ps. 7:9; 44:21; 139:1-6; Prov. 24:12; Jer. 17:10; Ezek. 11:5; Rom. 8:27; 1 Thess. 2:4. God sends messagers throughout the Earth who report to Him of all that they find in the Earth that goes on Dan. 10:13-21; 11:1; 12:1; Zech. 1:7-11; 6:1-8; Mt. 18:10,11; Heb. 2:4. God does not take care of every detail of His vast business in all the kingdoms of the universe. His agents help Him and they are found in every part of the universe on missions for God. Certain angles are responsible to God for carrying out His will in almost infinite detail concerning the billions of suns, moons, planets, and all free moral agents on them.

 

[BanjoPicker]

God does not personally do everything that is done in all acts and events, nor has He known, elected, chosen, or predestinated all the acts and events, from all eternity past. Several times God, Himself said of certain events that they did not come into His mind Jer. 19:5; 32:35; 44:21. God did not know beforehand that men would become so wicked Gen. 6:5-7, that they would plan Babel Gen. 11:5-7, that Sodom would be so wicked Gen. 18:21, 26, 28-32; that Abraham would actually proceed to offer up Isaac Gen. 22:12, God did not know whether it would take one or two or three signs to make Israel believe in Him Ex. 4:1-12, or whether testing Israel, would cause them to obey Him or not Deut. 8:2, 16. He did not know that Israel would backslide as far as she did Deut. 32:19-29; Isa. 59:15-19. Furthermore, He searchers to find men whom He can bless 2 Chron. 16:9; He discovers deep things Job 12:22; tries the hearts and reins of men so that He may know them Ps. 7:9; 44:21; 139:1-6, 23, 24; Jer. 17:10; 1 Chron. 28:9; Rom. 8:27; 1 Cor. 2:10; Rev. 2:23. Proving all men for the same reason Ps. 17:3; 66:10; 88:7.

 

[Artfuldodger]

God does not personally do everything that is done in all acts and events, nor has He known, elected, chosen, or predestinated all the acts and events, from all eternity past. Several times God, Himself said of certain events that they did not come into His mind Jer. 19:5; 32:35; 44:21. God did not know beforehand that men would become so wicked Gen. 6:5-7, that they would plan Babel Gen. 11:5-7, that Sodom would be so wicked Gen. 18:21, 26, 28-32; that Abraham would actually proceed to offer up Isaac Gen. 22:12, God did not know whether it would take one or two or three signs to make Israel believe in Him Ex. 4:1-12, or whether testing Israel, would cause them to obey Him or not Deut. 8:2, 16. He did not know that Israel would backslide as far as she did Deut. 32:19-29; Isa. 59:15-19. Furthermore, He searchers to find men whom He can bless 2 Chron. 16:9; He discovers deep things Job 12:22; tries the hearts and reins of men so that He may know them Ps. 7:9; 44:21; 139:1-6, 23, 24; Jer. 17:10; 1 Chron. 28:9; Rom. 8:27; 1 Cor. 2:10; Rev. 2:23. Proving all men for the same reason Ps. 17:3; 66:10; 88:7.

Isaiah 46:10
I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.’

 

[BanjoPicker]

Isaiah 46:10
I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.’

Is that not the Bible the Word of God from the beginning to the end what He shall do? Yes it will stand and be done as it is written. Amen.

 

[Spotlite]

A God with limited knowledge??

Is this literal or figurative- For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

And, what is the criteria for deciding?

 

[Artfuldodger]

Is that not the Bible the Word of God from the beginning to the end what He shall do? Yes it will stand and be done as it is written. Amen.

That was in reply to "certain events that they did not come into His mind." That doesn't mean that God was not aware of those events.

 

[BanjoPicker]

A God with limited knowledge??

This is not what was said but what you made of it to sound like, you have the Scripture what is said which you must not have searched, It speaks of God using people to His plan from the beginning of Adam, which if you don't believe it then you and me an all others need to just keep our mouth shut and quit witnessing to people like God wants us to do Amen.

 

[BanjoPicker]

The 6,468 commands in the Bible regulating man as to his part in the eternal plan of God, and setting forth his responsibility to God and man, the 1,260 promises of curses and blessings, rewards, or loss of rewards, the hundreds of warnings, curses, blessings and dealings of God on the basis of conformity of His will, the 1, 522 "if's" and the many hundreds of conditional requirements of God throughout Scripture are sufficient proof that God does not cause all acts and events by His own decrees-- and sufficient proof that He changes His own dealings with men, as they conform or refuse to conform to His will. Such facts and many others make it clear that God does not know from all eternity what any one man will do, much less what different types and dispositions of men will do under various circumstances that are not yet present to deal with.

 

[Spotlite]

God is Omniscient

The question of the Omniscient of God is also misunderstood. The Bible makes many simple statements that limit God’s knowledge. There would be no sense to such passages if we do not believe them literally.

This is not what was said but what you made of it to sound like, you have the Scripture what is said which you must not have searched, It speaks of God using people to His plan from the beginning of Adam, which if you don't believe it then you and me an all others need to just keep our mouth shut and quit witnessing to people like God wants us to do Amen.

Maybe I’m missing something. I’m not above making mistakes.

What does your above statement mean?

 

[BanjoPicker]

We have no statements in the entire Bible Saying that God knows or even would like to know all acts and particular events of all vast creations of free moral agents from all eternity past, or that He fixed decrees choosing and predestinating all the thoughts, acts, and deeds of free wills from all eternity past to all eternity future.

 

[BanjoPicker]

God's eternal plan for man is known from the beginning to the end and what He plans to bring to pass om Earth He has power to do, but concerning the free actions of free moral agents He does not know from all eternity what they will do before they are in existence and are here to have a part in His plan. He does not know which ones will be saved and which ones will be lost. He has made a plan for to be saved alike and all who conform to His plan are blessed with the predestined blessings, those who WILFULLY REBEL WILL BE CURSED with the predestined punishments according to the plan. It is the plan that is known from the beginning to the end, not the individual conformity to it by free moral agents. It is left up to each person to choose His own destiny God wills all men to be saved but if man does not choose to be saved that is his responsibility.

 

[Artfuldodger]

God's eternal plan for man is known from the beginning to the end and what He plans to bring to pass om Earth He has power to do, but concerning the free actions of free moral agents He does not know from all eternity what they will do before they are in existence and are here to have a part in His plan. He does not know which ones will be saved and which ones will be lost. He has made a plan for to be saved alike and all who conform to His plan are blessed with the predestined blessings, those who WILFULLY REBEL WILL BE CURSED with the predestined punishments according to the plan. It is the plan that is known from the beginning to the end, not the individual conformity to it by free moral agents. It is left up to each person to choose His own destiny God wills all men to be saved but if man does not choose to be saved that is his responsibility.

Let me see if I got this, God did not know that Adam would sin, nor did he not know that His son would be put to death on a Cross by Jews and Romans?

 

[Spotlite]

We have no statements in the entire Bible Saying that God knows or even would like to know all acts and particular events of all vast creations of free moral agents from all eternity past, or that He fixed decrees choosing and predestinating all the thoughts, acts, and deeds of free wills from all eternity past to all eternity future.

Any sparrows forgotten before God? Do you know how many hairs you have? He does.

This is scripture - God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things

 

[gordon 2]

There are somethings to be said about free will and there are somethings to be said about being possessed.

The person that does not know the truth of the Christian religion though that person might even describe themselves as Christian is not able by the force of their own will to know the truth intimately and so other than by definitions of it. These have real freedom and their freedom is to chose to pray.

Same things with the person and definitions of God. The possessed blind of their possessions and blind that they are lastly, only and still possessed of themselves having purged all other worldly possessions but their own desire towards God cannot know the full power of God which is Him that would change them into someone that was no longer free of the experience of the truth. I am equally guilty of getting in my own way and claiming to be in His way.

I am possessed of myself. No striving that I can do to be my own exorcist can set me free of definitions and definitions of definitions on the religion of my religion with my soul's understanding that I am yet someday to be set free. Oh !that my body must die that I might see God! Oh! that I say with my lips I am crucified with the Lord, dead with him but yet not to myself! Yet I can make definitions of Him, who I cannot see, from my partly cleansed soul! OH!

And well I might define what a cat is, the definition has no claws. My brothers tell me what a cat is and what a dog is and I will use their meanings on it.

Not free of ourselves we might boast of imagined freedom especially that there is no boast in us of the trials of our responsibility for it. Freedom without responsibility is a dead give away of not being free. I commission myself in the will of knowing what Solomon knew and for which he was a sad king. It is not the truth that David knew to live a life from which he was never free and yet for joy it made him dance with ecstasy.

The truth is from God. The truth of my religion is a misfit if its truth is from the very last of me. Its commissions will be of my own will and so my definitions of the world and the holy. True religion is commission from the Glory of God. No one can just walk up to it. Yet if the self is surrendered to Christ...the bible reads as something else, the gospel is made alive and definitions are made gentle and not harsh to the newer ear now possessed by the love of God. Assurance does not require to be shored up from the bible chapter and verse, it is plainly and joyfully from God.

As Christ can be our model, did Jesus lean on and off of scripture and tradition or on the Father for our truth? Is it by scripture and tradition that Jesus was able to know the Father? Or was it by praying to the Father and so knowing the Father that through the Father Jesus knew to find the truth in scripture and tradition and so discern the hearts of the men and the women of the times he was commissioned to ?

Was it easy for Paul to serve himself and us not to suspect how he made himself nothing to serve the Lord, when he said "... I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified."

Funny how that worked. When I am not there and I speak of the things of God, it is hard to minister a lie, or imagine things that are not in conformity with the whole counsel of God.