matt79brown
Senior Member
This has probably been addressed on here already if so I apologize in advance. Do Atheist recognize/ acknowledge/ identify good and evil or is it just circumstantial but yet perceived as such?
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GOOD VS. EVIL
- Thread starter matt79brown
- Start date
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
Yeah, it's been addressed
WaltL1
Senior Member
Define what you mean by "good and evil"?
The existence of God and the Devil?
Of course an Atheist can recognize/acknowledge/identify what we deem to be good acts and what we deem to be evil acts.
But even good and evil can be subjective. What one my consider good, another may consider evil.
The existence of God and the Devil?
Of course an Atheist can recognize/acknowledge/identify what we deem to be good acts and what we deem to be evil acts.
But even good and evil can be subjective. What one my consider good, another may consider evil.
oldfella1962
Senior Member
True! Taken to it's ultimate limit, a believer might think eternal fiery torment for unbelievers is good, since god really hates sin and we were warned well ahead of time. A non-believer might think eternal fiery torment is evil just on general principle. Hey, whatever floats your boat I guess.
SemperFiDawg
Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
Never heard of it.
matt79brown
Senior Member
Situational ethics, floating guidelines, adjustable standards but no black & white concrete rights or wrongs. Interesting, but I'm not buying it.
atlashunter
Senior Member
Start by defining your terms.
ambush80
Senior Member
Why are you not buying it?
matt79brown
Senior Member
I have a hard time believing that there are things we can't all agree that are wrong. I'm not saying that we won't do them because we know there wrong but that there is something inside of us that says ''that ain't right!''
I do too.
Can we start by agreeing that the genocide, rape, incest, and slavery in the Bible is wrong?
That should be easy enough.
*
oldfella1962
Senior Member
there are some things that 99 percent of the human race alive today thinks is wrong, or evil if you want to call it that. But in god's eyes knowing obvious good from obvious evil doesn't cut it. You either worship god or you burn. That's the only evil that really matters. Everything else is "rags" in god's eyes. Hey, don't shoot the messenger here!
atlashunter
Senior Member
"That's different!"
If the OP is either unable or unwilling to define the terms being discussed there isn't much point in discussing them. Everyone will just be talking past each other.
Israel
BANNED
That's a tough one Matt. I never steal pens at work...I often just find them alone, seemingly abandoned, and forlorn...and give them a home.
Seriously...it could sound like I am saying "even the believer whose spiritual senses should be refined to knowing good and evil...(in presumption "like me") could suffer a not knowing.
I'm always convicted when I read about the person who strives to return the bag stuffed with C notes they found in the backseat of a taxi.
I think I'd be terrified to learn just how much I've robbed. If not for mercy...
You get it, right?
Off hand I'd say lying is an evil thing.
But then , I think about folks like the ten Booms.
"No Jews here..."
And I see that it's one thing to comfortably sit in a place of no conflict and admire "my own refined sense of good and evil", and quite another to either put oneself, or find oneself where life is on the line.
I think we (at least I see it in myself) may also find a comfort, or self admiration in the perception of ourselves as lovers of truth. Yet truth at best is a gold ring with very sharp edges, a two edged sword that must do as thorough a work within as we may hope it would do "without" to our defense. Jesus does not spare disciples...stiff rebuke.
In truth, we may really find this (specifically) true:
"Those whom I love, I rebuke and chasten"
so that the disciple himself may begin to see "I have been placed where I am now open to all rebuke"
I cannot defeat it. I cannot resist it, I cannot thwart this reality.
But there is also that great comfort...is there not(?)...that even under the stiffest of rebuke and opposition that may (at the time) seem to be all of our own undoing (even to what is perceived as total collapse)...the conviction that we are being loved (precisely) through this.
In the very deepest sense that I yet have known, I cannot deny the disciple's call to Jesus Christ is as much in learning how wrong he has been, and yet may be through the knowledge of Jesus Christ.
This light is indeed unsparing, no respecter of persons. There is nothing of self there to make a "good argument against it"...there is, as always, and thankfully, only One to present for mercy. Present...to show...mercy.
Paul says an interesting thing:
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
A man (such as myself) might say "I was delivered from drinking, or being a wife beater, an adulterer, a rebrobate"...and begin to think something of himself. But we find the deeper this walk leads...there are things of which we were previously unaware, deep, dark things of pride and arrogance....and rebellions...and even wishes for death "to enemies"...that come to light. (specifically for the removal) in our own souls.
There is only one thing I am always made (eventually) very glad to know...that I have been completely wrong about. And that is the depths of mercy to be found in Jesus Christ.
I see a bit...and instantly begin to think "ahhh, now I know...!" But there is always someone watching who has purposed to not leave me in such a place of poverty.
Seriously...it could sound like I am saying "even the believer whose spiritual senses should be refined to knowing good and evil...(in presumption "like me") could suffer a not knowing.
I'm always convicted when I read about the person who strives to return the bag stuffed with C notes they found in the backseat of a taxi.
I think I'd be terrified to learn just how much I've robbed. If not for mercy...
You get it, right?
Off hand I'd say lying is an evil thing.
But then , I think about folks like the ten Booms.
"No Jews here..."
And I see that it's one thing to comfortably sit in a place of no conflict and admire "my own refined sense of good and evil", and quite another to either put oneself, or find oneself where life is on the line.
I think we (at least I see it in myself) may also find a comfort, or self admiration in the perception of ourselves as lovers of truth. Yet truth at best is a gold ring with very sharp edges, a two edged sword that must do as thorough a work within as we may hope it would do "without" to our defense. Jesus does not spare disciples...stiff rebuke.
In truth, we may really find this (specifically) true:
"Those whom I love, I rebuke and chasten"
so that the disciple himself may begin to see "I have been placed where I am now open to all rebuke"
I cannot defeat it. I cannot resist it, I cannot thwart this reality.
But there is also that great comfort...is there not(?)...that even under the stiffest of rebuke and opposition that may (at the time) seem to be all of our own undoing (even to what is perceived as total collapse)...the conviction that we are being loved (precisely) through this.
In the very deepest sense that I yet have known, I cannot deny the disciple's call to Jesus Christ is as much in learning how wrong he has been, and yet may be through the knowledge of Jesus Christ.
This light is indeed unsparing, no respecter of persons. There is nothing of self there to make a "good argument against it"...there is, as always, and thankfully, only One to present for mercy. Present...to show...mercy.
Paul says an interesting thing:
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
A man (such as myself) might say "I was delivered from drinking, or being a wife beater, an adulterer, a rebrobate"...and begin to think something of himself. But we find the deeper this walk leads...there are things of which we were previously unaware, deep, dark things of pride and arrogance....and rebellions...and even wishes for death "to enemies"...that come to light. (specifically for the removal) in our own souls.
There is only one thing I am always made (eventually) very glad to know...that I have been completely wrong about. And that is the depths of mercy to be found in Jesus Christ.
I see a bit...and instantly begin to think "ahhh, now I know...!" But there is always someone watching who has purposed to not leave me in such a place of poverty.
WaltL1
Senior Member
You asked us a question.
You apparently have supplied yourself with the answers and now you aren't buying it?
My question to you would be "why did you bother asking"?
WaltL1
Senior Member
Watch how fast those black and white concrete wrongs turn into -"atlashunter, post: 11241100, member: 34470"]"That's different!"
The ones he's not buying.
SemperFiDawg
Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
Good example of how twisted hate can make you.
WaltL1
Senior Member
That should be easy enough.
I agree. Those things are definitely not good examples of "love your neighbor".
What does God hate?
“These six things the Lord hates, yes, seven are an abomination to Him: A proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that are swift in running to evil, a false witness who speaks lies, and one who sows discord among brethren” (Proverbs 6:16-19).”
Hmmm, no mention of genocide, incest, rape, or slavery?
That seems “twisted” to me.
*
SemperFiDawg
Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
Not good examples of the truth or even a semblances of it. Great example of how Athiest have no regard for truth though. Same song, different day.
SemperFiDawg
Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
What does God hate?
“These six things the Lord hates, yes, seven are an abomination to Him: A proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that are swift in running to evil, a false witness who speaks lies, and one who sows discord among brethren” (Proverbs 6:16-19).”
Hmmm, no mention of genocide, incest, rape, or slavery?
That seems “twisted” to me.
*
I truly pity you. I do.
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