New to reloading and have some questions…

[Jester896]

Makes total sense. And to answer your question from before… I’d expect the bullet to work properly within the ranges Barnes reports on their loading sheet.

What is this loading sheet you speak of?
If it starts out at 3000 fps, at what distance from you does it drop below 2200 fps?
Barnes bullets don't expand in the normal sense or mushroom in the normal sense. The petals peel back to create a larger wound channel like lead bullets do when they expand or mushroom

 

[bullgator]

So a quick search shows me that the Barnes TTSX comes in a 168g flavor… that’s the same weight as my 168/9g smk…

Different tail on the bullets— but can I expect the bullets to behave similarly down range? (Strictly talking about accuracy and the trajectory of the bullet) is never hunt with the smk, just makes me uncomfortable.

The reviews on the 130g and 150g ttsx almost seem to good to be true. Definitely going to buy a box or two and try them out!

No, use the lighter bullets as others have already posted. The all copper bullets are longer per weight and therefore have more bearing surface to deal with. This is where a 130 Barnes will compare with a 165 conventional bullet. One other thing to remember, those Barnes bullets like a lot of jump to the lands, often .050-.070”.

 

[MtnBear]

One thing about the added velocity. It ruins a lot more meat and makes processing messier. Something to consider.

Rosewood

That’s a great point. That is why, I’d imagine, I’ve been told to use the loading data assuming a little bias toward the lower end of the data.

I must emphatically disagree with the view "start at the finish line and work my way back." This goes against all the rules about reloading and the lessons already learned by your responders." There is a term we use "tickling the dragons tail" it's mainly used concerning adding more powder to try and get a little more velocity. But it can fit other processes also and your thinking is getting you real close.
Do you know how to check for pressure signs in your brass and rifle? Did you know that by the time these pressure signs show themselves your load is already at max or beyond?
I don't trust the theory that all maximum loads in the books are safe in all firearms. Because they are not! Contemplate the results if you start at the top and your rifle won't handle that maximum load.

The proper way, the safe way, is to learn the pressure signs and start at the bottom.
By examining every case you can head off high pressure problems and along the way you might find a more accurate load than max. Trust me. The elk won't know if you just shot him with a max load or one a couple hundred fps less.

What I mean by start at the end and work my way back is in my research. i.e. I know how I want the ammunition to work and how I want it to perform the task. So I ask all these crazy questions because I don’t want to reinvent the wheel or waist money. Once I’ve got my answers I can go back to the starting line and run the race knowing where the finish line is, although it seems like it might not as clear-cut as all that… I’m just trying to remove as many variables from the mix before I start the process.

Regarding the loading data I completely agree— your advice is directly in line with my friend who used to load for 30-06. He’s actually been really loud about the fact that you can only trust the data sheet as a frame of reference not as an absolute. I’m not expecting to reach the reported maximum for this recipe or any of the others I load for 300win mag… part of the reason for some serious miss-understand earlier in the thread about minimum velocities. But I can’t say that I’m not curious to see what the affects on accuracy and the trajectory of the bullet are as the velocities increase. My neighbor who I purchased all the reloading stuff on my bench instructed me to start with the minimum stated load and subtract 5 to 7% as treat that as the “minimum” and working up from there. Regarding pressures I’m unfamiliar because I’ve only ever used factory ammo, but I am aware of the science behind it to the extent that I can read about it. I’m friends with a nice guy who works at a range where they can help me test the different aspects of each load I produce to see how each performs. I’ve also, by complete and random blessing, got access to a local outdoor rifle range that is literally a short walk from my house. Of course the real problem for me is that all the advice I’ve been given regarding reloading, beyond what I’ve learned here, is based on decades of 30-06 reloading experience with an admitted lack of knowledge about loading for 300 win mag. (Probably the single biggest reason I ended up here, and thank god I did. You guys are filling in all the gapping holes in my knowledge base)

??

 

[MtnBear]

What is this loading sheet you speak of?
If it starts out at 3000 fps, at what distance from you does it drop below 2200 fps?
Barnes bullets don't expand in the normal sense or mushroom in the normal sense. The petals peel back to create a larger wound channel like lead bullets do when they expand or mushroom

The loading data in this reference is directly from barns, you actually shared it with me ??

Regarding how quickly it’s velocity is reduced as is travels down range I am not sure. I wrote down that I needed to do the math on it, but I haven’t looked up the formula yet. Didn’t feel rushed because a few members have shared experience taking similar sized game far beyond what I’d be comfortable with shooting. Maybe down the road, but not this season for sure.

 

[MtnBear]

No, use the lighter bullets as others have already posted. The all copper bullets are longer per weight and therefore have more bearing surface to deal with. This is where a 130 Barnes will compare with a 165 conventional bullet. One other thing to remember, those Barnes bullets like a lot of jump to the lands, often .050-.070”.

So this is way over my head, but the question jumped out at me…

If I’m seating the bullet deeper in the neck aren’t I further increasing pressure? Again way over my head right now, but just makes sense to me, more mechanical grip on the surface of the bullet to overcome, and that would increase velocity so if I build up a load and then choose to seat the bullet lower would I have to readjust how much powder I use?

If this is off base tell me… and explain why please.

??

 

[MtnBear]

I discovered the double lung shot a few years back by accident after always shooting to break the shoulder that I had been taught. I have learned just because you have been taught something by someone you respect doesn't mean they really knew what they were talking about. Saves most all the good meat and they never run more than about 50 yards. Many drop within a few feet.

Other thing I learned on my own was to sit in the stand for at least 20 minutes before you go looking unless you can clearly see the deer is down and not breathing. You can't catch a spooked/injured deer. You will just push them further away. Sure wished someone had taught me this, at least one deer I lost that I could most likely have recovered.

Rosewood

Great advice. Literally heard my grandpa’s voice reading the entire post.

Thank you!

 

[bullgator]

So this is way over my head, but the question jumped out at me…

If I’m seating the bullet deeper in the neck aren’t I further increasing pressure? Again way over my head right now, but just makes sense to me, more mechanical grip on the surface of the bullet to overcome, and that would increase velocity so if I build up a load and then choose to seat the bullet lower would I have to readjust how much powder I use?

If this is off base tell me… and explain why please.

??

This is why they develop load data for these types of bullets differently from conventional bullets. Getting to your pressure issue, yes, seating a bullet deeper can increase pressure if your using the same bullet. Remember, in this case the Barnes is both lighter and softer than the 165 gr. conventional bullet which offsets the bullet being seated deeper. Barnes has load data on their website which is developed with their unique bullets.

 

[Jester896]

the jump data that bullgator mentioned is also available on the Barnes web site. I think it is too early in your quest to start messing with bullet seating depths...follow the seating depth in the data they provide.

the slower the bullet leaves your barrel the faster it is going to drop speed. You mentioned your normal shooting range might be 400 yards. If you start the 165gr Barnes bullet at 3,000 fps it is probably going to drop below the optimal velocity for expansion somewhere around 350-375 yards. That is one reason that we recommended the light for caliber route rather than buying as close as you could to the weight you have been shooting against the advice.

I am not so certain that I would drop the minimum load 5-7% under what it says in the data. Negative things can also happen when you don't put enough powder in. I have always heard from the older guys say to drop 5-7% at a minimum from the top of that data not the bottom.

The book is just a reference....that is the information they got. You will need to prove or disprove all of the data IN YOUR RIFLE. You will need to find the node that works best in your rifle...not that book.

 

[Stevie Ray]

I think we need to make a reloading manual out of this thread. ;-)

 

[Dub]

 

[MtnBear]

I think we need to make a reloading manual out of this thread. ;-)

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Have the Sierra manual. Buying the Barnes ones since I own their bullets now as well. Thank you ??

 

[Nimrod71]

Stevie, I think you have a good idea. I really do like this thread. It's like putting new life is some of us older folks. It gets our blood running a little better and gets our brains in gear. How long has it been since we disgust a subject like this?

 

[bullgator]

Have the Sierra manual. Buying the Barnes ones since I own their bullets now as well. Thank you ??

In the meantime, it’s available online for free.

 

[divinginn]

There is a free manual from Hodgens and western powder on line also.

 

[Stevie Ray]

Stevie, I think you have a good idea. I really do like this thread. It's like putting new life is some of us older folks. It gets our blood running a little better and gets our brains in gear. How long has it been since we disgust a subject like this?

For sure, it's really nice to see the juices flowing and the big guns stepping up to share their vast knowledge of the craft. I've been at it for about 15 years, have loaded no telling how many thousands of rounds over the years but yet reading through rare threads like this with so many experienced and willing to share folks about the only thing I can do is throw on my reading glasses, read, learn and hit the like button to extend my appreciation.

For anybody in the early stages of reloading (or even experienced), pay attention ... these folks know what they're talking about.

 

[Jester896]

In the meantime, it’s available online for free.

He should probably read all of the stuff in front of the loading data in the 2 he has. You can't get that part online. I am in the middle of rereading the new Hornady now.

 

[bullethead]

For the first year at least, reloading books should spend equal time on the reloading bench and next to the Thinking Throne in the bathroom.

 

[Stevie Ray]

For the first year at least, reloading books should spend equal time on the reloading bench and next to the Thinking Throne in the bathroom.

Yes, for sure. And my philosophy has always been that there can't be too many loading manuals in the mix either. I spend quite a lot of time cross referencing different manuals whenever I'm working loads, especially new loads.

 

[MtnBear]

He should probably read all of the stuff in front of the loading data in the 2 he has. You can't get that part online. I am in the middle of rereading the new Hornady now.

Agreed, I’ve read it and I’m rereading it again and then I’ll probably circle back and read it another time.

 

[Jester896]

Agreed, I’ve read it and I’m rereading it again and then I’ll probably circle back and read it another time.

don't forget to ask questions about it if you have any...might not have to circle back