“120 Minimum Glass Ceiling”

[Away]

VERY few hunters are willing to pass bucks until they are 5+, so most trophy clubs never reach the desired goal. The very worst deer to take if you are managing for old, mature bucks, is a good genetic 3 or 4 year old. Unfortunately, this is what makes up the bulk of the bucks taken, even in clubs that say they are trophy managed.

Facts

 

[Rich M]

I think it’s really site specific. To say a waste of time all together I feel is a bit extreme.

A good example for this is we had an old 4pt with an 18” spread. Massive body and a very aggressive buck. I shot him in mid October and after that, had more bucks spend more time on the property in daylight. From October through January on 61 acres I’ll still get daylight pictures of bucks all over.

To me, it seemed like that buck dominated our property and would push other bucks off of the feeders. Once he was gone the dynamic changed and more bucks seem to bed on the land now. Maybe it was the rut, maybe our winter bedding habitat is better, but it just seems like through hunting and trail cameras that removing that Buck benefitted the hunting for us.

Yes they’re wild animals, we cannot control genetics.. but we can attempt to control which bucks dominate the land were able to hunt. We can try to manage the buck to doe ratio.

How was that a cull buck? You shot a mature, dominant buck. Might have had a smaller rack but seemed to fulfill the mature animal thing.

Not trying to argue a point but to point at it. So many folks believe that older mature bucks are supposed to have big head gear but like people, the size of the gear varies.

Seems like you got the king buck, and now have replacements move in. Exactly how it's supposed to happen.

 

[Long Cut]

How was that a cull buck? You shot a mature, dominant buck. Might have had a smaller rack but seemed to fulfill the mature animal thing.

Not trying to argue a point but to point at it. So many folks believe that older mature bucks are supposed to have big head gear but like people, the size of the gear varies.

Seems like you got the king buck, and now have replacements move in. Exactly how it's supposed to happen.

That buck in that specific instance was a “cull” buck to me, because he didn’t fit the goal to reach +130”, nor would he ever. He was running younger bucks with higher potential away. Being a larger bodied animal, so he was eating more food that could go to other bucks, fawns, does...

Smaller tract of land we can only fit so many bucks and does on it. So we have to be efficient in how we manage the herd. (Most our neighbors hunt elsewhere, or are on board with shooting more mature animals- so it’s possible to manage a deer herd on smaller acreage setup in a co-op)

 

[Rich M]

That buck in that specific instance was a “cull” buck to me, because he didn’t fit the goal to reach +130”, nor would he ever. He was running younger bucks with higher potential away. Being a larger bodied animal, so he was eating more food that could go to other bucks, fawns, does...

Smaller tract of land we can only fit so many bucks and does on it. So we have to be efficient in how we manage the herd. (Most our neighbors hunt elsewhere, or are on board with shooting more mature animals- so it’s possible to manage a deer herd on smaller acreage setup in a co-op)

I've got nothing with the antler size - he fit every other criteria you are managing for, so IMO, your management plan/practice is a success. Now for the next buck to take his spot maybe has bigger horns to go with everything else.

 

[James12]

I’d like to see some 3-4yr olds people have passed on. Regardless of size, if you’re going to be “managing”, one must be able to understand what a 3-4 yr old looks like.

 

[Away]

The problem I've seen is not that people can't generally differentiate between a mature and immature buck, it's that they can't or won't hold off when an immature buck walks by with an impressive rack. Everyone starts the season with good intentions but by the end of the season start getting antsy.

 

[nmurph]

I’d like to see some 3-4yr olds people have passed on. Regardless of size, if you’re going to be “managing”, one must be able to understand what a 3-4 yr old looks like.

Passed this one 4 times in one week alone this past season. My son(17YO) passed him twice this last season. I've had him on camera since 2018. I'm still getting pics of him weekly.

 

[James12]

That deer is getting hammered in most clubs. Hopefully yalls patience pays off!

 

[across the river]

Passed this one 4 times in one week alone this past season. My son(17YO) passed him twice this last season. I've had him on camera since 2018. I'm still getting pics of him weekly.

View attachment 1064010View attachment 1064011View attachment 1064012

So what are you expecting that deer to become, and at what point would you shoot it?

 

[FlipKing]

We passed on this deer at least 5 times this year. Hopefully it pays off after he gets another year. We try to judge age as much as we do score.

 

[Away]

So what are you expecting that deer to become, and at what point would you shoot it?

I'm also curious to know the answer to this same question in regards to both deer pictured

 

[Blackston]

1 year older

 

[kmckinnie]

When I was coming up. We shot bucks. our trophy bucks where the smart ones that u just couldn’t kill. We didn’t have cameras. Just had to get lucky and see the deer. Some may have never been seen til the day it was shot. there always seem to be a big buck where most hunted and they where like Call legends !
Today we try to grow the big buck and Call legends nurture them along. We try to grow as many in a area. may have to do it that way. I think we have more hunters per area now. times have changed. progress for the modern hunter looking to take a wall hanger.
Enjoy the woods.

 

[OleCountryBoy]

We passed on this deer at least 5 times this year. Hopefully it pays off after he gets another year. We try to judge age as much as we do score.

How old you think he is? Good luck with this strategy...he ain’t gonna be special. Main frame 8 and already 4+.

 

[nmurph]

A 3.5-4.5YO deer isn't maxed. The deer I posted has grown each of the last three years and hopefully he'll put on more size this spring and summer- I'm sure he'll be wiser. I'd be very happy if I get to load this him up in the Mule next year, but I would be even happier if my son or his best friend, or my great nephew gets him. I know for sure that when we pull the trigger his growing days have ceased. There are no guarantees that he'll get any bigger next year. We chose to chance that we would have another opportunity next year (I pulled my cameras today and had at least 50 pics of him scattered across 300ac- some from last week). Even if he moves off, gets hit by a car or poached, or heaven forbid someone else kills MY deer, I've enjoyed just watching him in his environ and that experience is why I hunt.

 

[FlipKing]

We have estimated him at 3 or 4. Either way not 5, and bucks often dont reach their max til 5+. At 4, they estimate has grown to 75-90% of his potential. If that buck adds 10%, he's pushing 140. If he adds 20% he's pushing 150. We are also feeding. He made it through the season and we shall see what he becomes next year.

 

[Away]

For our area there is ample nutrition and habitat to grow and sustain mature animals but the pressure is very high. The risk of it not being seen the following year for whatever the reason is not worth the additional 10% of gains to try to go from 4 to 5+.

 

[FlipKing]

If you shoot them, they are 100% done growing. Let them walk they have a chance. That being said this property is somewhat controlled environment.

 

[Away]

Yes but for our area when the average age killed is 3 (meaning a targeted buck just has a decent set of antlers) there is very little chance of survival year over year. 4 has been the sweet spot of antler growth and hunter success rate.

Ideally we'd set our targets for 5+ but we'd never pull the trigger and hunters outside of our control would continue killing what they want.

 

[FlipKing]

Comes down to your goals and what youre happy with. I have no problem with anything you decide to shoot. For me, I saw 150 deer from stand this year. I saw at least 4 bucks at or over 120. My goals have simply moved beyond 120.