Highgrading Buck Herds

[Triple C]

It goes back further than that and the reason wasn't about not caring what it was. There were limited doe days and mature bucks were scarce as hen's teeth. Back in the day you took what showed up and if that was a forkhorn 4 pointer you killed it and felt good about it because the population was small. I hunted entire seasons without seeing a single deer and if I did it was a doe and it wasn't a doe day.

Remember those days well. Went several seasons without seeing a single deer when I was old enough to start deer hunting in the late 60's. Shot a pile of squirrels n rabbits though.

 

[elfiii]

Remember those days well. Went several seasons without seeing a single deer when I was old enough to start deer hunting in the late 60's. Shot a pile of squirrels n rabbits though.

I got lucky my first year and killed a 6 pointer and you would have thought I was the greatest of great white hunters. Didn't kill another deer for 5 years after that. Today they are almost as thick as fleas on a dog's back and you can take your pick of what you are going to shoot.

 

[tcward]

If you have less than 1000 acres you are at the mercy of how those people around you hunt…I don’t care what YOU are doing.

 

[Nicodemus]

Some of us remember a time when there was no deer season in South Georgia. Our hunting season revolved around Fall turkeys, squirrels, and summer ducks (wood ducks) in the daytime and coon hunting at night.

You younger fellows probably can`t imagine what it was like to not have deer to hunt. It was a different world back then, and there weren`t any squabbles about how you hunted. A lot more respect between hunters too.

 

[J Gilbert]

Tell that to deer farmers...if letting Zeus eat a little more Buck Muscle and live a year or two longer was the trick...why do they pay 100k for a vile of genetics?

Deer growing big because of genetics in the wild is very different than in a pen; the people that are truly high-fence deer farmers pay because they can control everything involved with their herd, so only providing resources to the very best genetic potential makes sense.

Zeus specifically is an example of a deer born in the wild with the very best genetics and getting both the feed and the age to express them. Resources in that area are not really a limiting factor of the deer herd at all, nor is hunting pressure.

 

[catch22]

This year was an interesting year for me. from the mid 90s for about 10 yrs I hunted a county is extreme SW Ga extensively. We were fortunate with the land we hunted and saw a ton of deer....but the bucks were smaller in general and a 100'' deer was hard to find. I havent hunted that county in 10+ years until this year.

We are on a different property, but within a couple miles of the original piece. We still see alot of deer, but the size of the bucks/age class have definitely made a jump. Its still not a county with a bunch of 130" deer running around, but I was pleasantly surprised at the quality of the bucks we saw in person and on camera.

I think this is directly related to the modern hunter being much more willing to let smaller bucks walk and take a doe it meat is needed. I dont have any data to back this up....just observation over years in the stand.

 

[J Gilbert]

Some of us remember a time when there was no deer season in South Georgia. Our hunting season revolved around Fall turkeys, squirrels, and summer ducks (wood ducks) in the daytime and coon hunting at night.

You younger fellows probably can`t imagine what it was like to not have deer to hunt. It was a different world back then, and there weren`t any squabbles about how you hunted. A lot more respect between hunters too.

Nic,

I say this with the highest level of respect, as I've been reading your posts for 20 years here and have never taken exception to a single one of them, nor have I ever seen you be disrespectful to anyone for doing things the way they want; a lot of us never lived in those times that you and others hold very near and dear, and we get our enjoyment from different aspects of hunting than what you grew up on because of what we've had available during our hunting lifetimes.

This thread was started as a discourse on buck management and a specific text, and it was quickly derailed to the point that we're now nowhere near that subject. If we can't discuss deer management without folks changing the focus of the conversation in the general deer forum, can we at least get a deer management sub-forum where folks that think managing a herd are deer farmers might be less likely to disrupt everyone else? Where we're at now with deer management topics is about like someone going into a flint knapping thread talking about Rage broadheads - it's loosely in line with the subject, but in no way helpful for the people that want to stay on topic for a discussion.

 

[Nicodemus]

Nic,

I say this with the highest level of respect, as I've been reading your posts for 20 years here and have never taken exception to a single one of them, nor have I ever seen you be disrespectful to anyone for doing things the way they want; a lot of us never lived in those times that you and others hold very near and dear, and we get our enjoyment from different aspects of hunting than what you grew up on because of what we've had available during our hunting lifetimes.

This thread was started as a discourse on buck management and a specific text, and it was quickly derailed to the point that we're now nowhere near that subject. If we can't discuss deer management without folks changing the focus of the conversation in the general deer forum, can we at least get a deer management sub-forum where folks that think managing a herd are deer farmers might be less likely to disrupt everyone else? Where we're at now with deer management topics is about like someone going into a flint knapping thread talking about Rage broadheads - it's loosely in line with the subject, but in no way helpful for the people that want to stay on topic for a discussion.

Looking back through this thread, you`re right and I agree with you. I was wrong to derail this subject with my post and I thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Thanks again.

 

[HavocLover]

I haven’t read all of the comments, but good luck managing anything in this age of social media. Georgia produces some mighty fine deer. We always have and with QDM practices its only getting better. One of the main challenges that I see is social media. Everyone wants that hero pic and they’re willing to kill whatever to get it cause all they’ll do is throw the word “cull” in there to justify it. If that doesn’t work it’ll be, “old warrior” or “not my biggest but.”

Me personally, I have no problems whatsoever ending the season with a goose-egg rather than taking a deer that doesn’t meet my personal standards. But I’m hunting for MYSELF and my OWN satisfaction. Not for likes or comments.

 

[fireman32]

I’ll preface with I’m a meat hunter that lives and hunts in Dooly Co. I get it, woe is me.
However, all I have is anecdotal evidence from personal observations and from talking with other neighboring hunters. I don’t think high grading bucks is as big of a problem as letting so many does walk. I hear and talk about hunting with folks that combined hunt over 10,000 acres of land. The number of true 140” plus bucks isn’t all that high. Several thousands of these acres are intensely managed for trophy bucks. Protein feed, depredation and prescribed fire along with year round food plots. And this is in a county that’s been QDM for many years. In the spring and summer you can’t ride around rural Dooly Co. and not see 30-50 does an evening feeding in fields. Seems to me that with that many does even the genetically inferior bucks are gonna be able to reproduce, making more inferior bucks or genetically deficient does. I started hunting in the mid 80’s and there certainly wasn’t a deer behind every tree then, so I’m definitely not advocating for wholesale doe slaughter. However, allowing the deer herd to remain at or above the lands carrying capacity looks a lot like shooting yourself in the foot.
I haven’t been bit by the I gotta kill a monster buck bug, I just want my small place to be as attractive and beneficial to wildlife as it can be.

 

[Jimmypop]

I grew up in north Georgia in a time like Nic. It blows my mind that proper deer management is to produce bones rather than good meat.

 

[Triple C]

Long Cut - Back to your original post, I listened to that podcast. Definitely struck home for me. We have a wall full of 3.5 yr old bucks. They were the best of what we had during the years we killed them and doubt many would have passed on any of them. To that degree, we definitely high-graded our best and most promising bucks.

Only one 4.5 yr old have we killed on my place. Keep dreaming for a full-grown 5.5 yr old or older. Very, very few make it to 3.5 in my neck of the woods, and even fewer that are older.

Folks are motivated by different reasons. We have plenty of doe calling our place home so they get targeted for the freezer toward the end of the season. I think I enjoy watching multiple bucks just as much as much as the guy that likes to shoot any legal deer. In the end...we both win.

 

[buckpasser]

@J Gilbert

I really like your idea. I’m guilty of being in the weeds after the derailment, and I’m doing that again right now, but only to say that I second your thought. There probably should have been a trophy hunting only forum years ago and definitely a management one now.

 

[sea trout]

Our club has a 8 pt out to the ears minimum.
I've said for yeeeeeears that some of our best 2 year olds get killed every year because the 1 n 2 yr old bucks are seen by almost everyone. The mature bucks are harder to see and don't get shot much.
Those rules and that club are as old as I am. And it's a great club with great group of people and we don't sweat it we just have fun and hunt.
But it is cool that some of the new members and/or younger members are interested in hunting older bucks. They are interested in letting 2 yr olds live and eat even if they make club requirements.
The older gentelmen on the club cant wait until an any club 8 point comes out for them to blast and that makes them happy, so that makes the rest of us happy and happy for them!
Have a great time in the woods and congradulate others and you too will be happy and successful!

 

[C.Killmaster]

Tell that to deer farmers...if letting Zeus eat a little more Buck Muscle and live a year or two longer was the trick...why do they pay 100k for a vile of genetics?

In free-ranging deer populations everyone should really exclude genetics from their vocabulary because they are good across our state. Age and nutrition are the only limiting factors for Georgia deer. The line breeding you're referring to in the deer breeding industry is akin to the differences between great danes and chihuahuas and has zero relevance to free-range deer management. Breeder deer are so inbred that they have trouble telling apart siblings in genetic tests.

By the time a deer is old enough for you to tell that he has "bad genetics" he has already contributed to the gene pool. Likewise with the female contributions mentioned earlier, no way to know. You only increase antler growth through genetics in captive settings by breeding deer back to their siblings and offspring to select for certain traits over many generations. In other words, 100% control over all breeding in that population.

 

[jaydawg]

^THIS!!…wish you guys would keep repeating this…you can’t control a wild herd, period…

 

[Long Cut]

I posted this thread and link to help educate other hunters, land managers, club presidents and Co-Ops about different strategies to manage their hunting. This time of year, I’d imagine most folks are evaluating the past hunting season and setting up programs for future seasons.

The knee-jerk comments derailing this thread and providing zero value are unnecessary. It was stated from the first post this style of management is not for every property.

 

[Jim Boyd]

Provide cover

Provide and propagate food; whether it is commercial tillable, food plots, hard and soft mast, supplemental feeding, planted trees, etc

Harvest according to the herd

Have reasonable expectations

Kill the ones you can live with being gone

Don’t forget campfires, tractor seat time, a hot grill, seared meat, adult beverages, music (we have both kinds, country and western) and a warm bed.

Most of all, enjoy the true gifts that God gives us.

The rest is just noise.

 

[Jim Boyd]

I posted this thread and link to help educate other hunters, land managers, club presidents and Co-Ops about different strategies to manage their hunting. This time of year, I’d imagine most folks are evaluating the past hunting season and setting up programs for future seasons.

The knee-jerk comments derailing this thread and providing zero value are unnecessary. It was stated from the first post this style of management is not for every property.

Great thread, sir.

 

[catch22]

Our club has a 8 pt out to the ears minimum.
I've said for yeeeeeears that some of our best 2 year olds get killed every year because the 1 n 2 yr old bucks are seen by almost everyone. The mature bucks are harder to see and don't get shot much.
Those rules and that club are as old as I am. And it's a great club with great group of people and we don't sweat it we just have fun and hunt.
But it is cool that some of the new members and/or younger members are interested in hunting older bucks. They are interested in letting 2 yr olds live and eat even if they make club requirements.
The older gentelmen on the club cant wait until an any club 8 point comes out for them to blast and that makes them happy, so that makes the rest of us happy and happy for them!
Have a great time in the woods and congradulate others and you too will be happy and successful!

We did the same thing for years...with no real positive results. We shot the nice 2 year old 8's because they met the club criteria.....but we didnt really know what we were doing

Those rules are set so there is a "concrete" rule. Something we can put our eyes on and confirm. We should really be managing by age only (not antlers). The problem....the vast majority of us cant age a deer on the hoof when he his following a doe thru a food plot 10 minutes before shooting light ends. At least I cant.

I love these management threads and I apologize if any of my comments helped with the derailment