“120 Minimum Glass Ceiling”

[across the river]

For our area there is ample nutrition and habitat to grow and sustain mature animals but the pressure is very high. The risk of it not being seen the following year for whatever the reason is not worth the additional 10% of gains to try to go from 4 to 5+.

I’m with you. Hunting in Georgia to me is like having a kid that dominates the baseball diamond in the county’s rec league. You think he is great and everyone tells you how good he is, but then he starts playing travel ball in the tournaments out of state and you realize no matter how much he practices or works out, in the grand scheme of things he really isn’t all that good. Passed deer for years, did tons of work, had a huge tract next door than didn’t get hunted, etc..... and killed one deer that went 130” in over a decade. Went to Missouri to hunt with a buddy and saw three deer bigger than that in the first sit. I’m not saying I don’t enjoy hunting Georgia, but I think most people have an unrealistic expectation of what they are going to get regardless of how old the deer gets in most places. If I ever saw one that went 120 inches as a two year old, I would no doubt pass him up to give home a shot, but I have never seen one. Where I hunt in Georgia most 4 year dont hit 120, so if he is 4 and 115” and someone wants to kill him, I have no issue with it. What are missing out on, a future 125”, maybe.

 

[Away]

Yea this is my point. I understand everyone has their own goals but they have to be realistic for your area. Knowing that either of those bucks would be 100% targeted by surrounding hunters has caused me to reevaluate what my goal is. Am I happy with 120"? Not really. I'd ideally like a 5+ buck at 100% of his potential. But when a 4 year old becomes a rarity for an area you have to reassess.
If you can do it in your area you should. Most probably can't though.

 

[across the river]

Yea this is my point. I understand everyone has their own goals but they have to be realistic for your area. Knowing that either of those bucks would be 100% targeted by surrounding hunters has caused me to reevaluate what my goal is. Am I happy with 120"? Not really. I'd ideally like a 5+ buck at 100% of his potential. But when a 4 year old becomes a rarity for an area you have to reassess.
If you can do it in your area you should. Most probably can't though.

If you look at the truck buck measured results, the deer will range from a little over 100 to the 140s on most weeks, with the occasional deer bigger than that. There is usually several in the 130s and most of those come from the Atlanta to Columbus region down toward Thomasville, which is where the Wisconsin deer were stocked. Most taken East of that “line” are 120” deer for the most part at the top end. In order to grow a 170” deer, he needs to be over 100” at two and over 120” at three. Very few of these 130” deer being killed are three years old. If there is one, that’s the one you should have passed up if you want a book deer. I just don’t think most people understand how hard it is to grow a true giant, and most deer in Georgia could die of old age and would never touch 130”. Some areas that is an achievable goal, but most places it isn’t for 99.9% of the deer, whether you kill them or not.

 

[Long Cut]

I think too many folks, especially Southeastern “trophy” hunters, lose sight of what hunting is all about at times.

It’s not about the antlers, but beating “him” at his game. Figuring out the chess match... Finding his pattern, reading the animal sign, moving in the right spot to intercept him.

Some of y’all spend more time trying to figure out how much a buck will score, than scouting to find THE tree to kill him in.

I don’t care if he will score 60” or 160”, I’m after HIM. The biggest, baddest, oldest buck in the woods that I can legally hunt. I want to catch him inside 30 yards, broadside and without knowing I even exist.

The management aspect is a lot of fun, it’s good to efficiently manage our wildlife for future generations. But somewhere along the lines, guys began losing respect for that 8 year old 4 pointer. He may not score much, but he knows the woods better than any of us ever will.

 

[Always Searching]

I keep hearing age should be the determining factor on whether a deer gets killed or not. I agree, but it is just a guess as to how old a deer is before you shoot him. With the trail cam pics, it is a lot easier, but still not 100%, unless you can actually recognize a particular buck year after year.
I have also been doing an experiment with determining a deer’s age after they are on the ground. I have pulled the jaws and front teeth on the last few bucks that my dad, my son, and I have killed over the past 2 seasons. I take the jaw bones to one of our state wildlife biologists to be aged and the front teeth are sent off to deerage.com, where they are analyzed under a microscope. There has been a 3 to 4 year difference in the jaw bone age from the state biologist and the deerage.com age on every deer.

 

[nmurph]

Cementum aging accuracy isn't as accurate as counting the rings in a tree. Studies show they are 30-85% accurate, with older deer (3.5+) being more accurately aged. But even older deer can yield false results. Habitat and individual diversity can skew the results and cause incorrect aging just as using tooth replacement does.

 

[Long Cut]

Cementum aging accuracy isn't as accurate as counting the rings in a tree. Studies show they are 30-85% accurate, with older deer (3.5+) being more accurately aged. But even older deer can yield false results. Habitat and individual diversity can skew the results and cause incorrect aging just as using tooth replacement does.

cementum annuli (CA aging) is best used on bucks expected to be over 3.5YO.
tooth replacement and wear (TRW) is best used for fawns up to 3.5YO.

The National Deer Association & Wired to Hunt posted some pretty interesting articles. I’m assuming that you’ve read them, but I’ll post the links for other inquiring minds.

Between utilizing trail cameras, aging on the hoof to CA and TRW aging.. It’s all calculated guesses, BUT for the most part, the ability to get within +/- 1 year of age is very high.

https://www.deerassociation.com/estimating-deer-age-cementum-annuli/
https://wiredtohunt.com/2017/07/13/the-big-fat-cementum-aging-tooth-test-how-accurate-is-it-really/

 

[buckpasser]

I applaud those purposely passing 4th rack bucks, but I think you’ll be disappointed long term by the risk/reward scale tip. You probably won’t get him later, but more importantly he won’t be much better if you do. Not to mention he might booger up a pedicle or break a leg and ruin himself permanently in the ivory department. Again, tip of the hat to the hard core deer watchers.

 

[deerhuntingdawg]

If you look at the truck buck measured results, the deer will range from a little over 100 to the 140s on most weeks, with the occasional deer bigger than that. There is usually several in the 130s and most of those come from the Atlanta to Columbus region down toward Thomasville, which is where the Wisconsin deer were stocked. Most taken East of that “line” are 120” deer for the most part at the top end. In order to grow a 170” deer, he needs to be over 100” at two and over 120” at three. Very few of these 130” deer being killed are three years old. If there is one, that’s the one you should have passed up if you want a book deer. I just don’t think most people understand how hard it is to grow a true giant, and most deer in Georgia could die of old age and would never touch 130”. Some areas that is an achievable goal, but most places it isn’t for 99.9% of the deer, whether you kill them or not.

We hunt outside of Augusta and we’ve passed plenty of 120” bucks. We’ve killed several 130-150” bucks in the pass couple of years (gross B&C scores).Genetics are just fine in our area, age and food are major determining factors. I did tag out on a 9 point in late season that wouldn’t score much last year due to age. He was at least 5 1/2 (teeth wear)and weight over 200lbs after the rut. The majority of the bucks killed will never see a public forum through
My close friend in particular has killed a 151”, 145”, & 160” in three different CSRA counties in the past 10 years. But you couldn’t pay him enough to post them on FB. Mainly due to bad experiences with poachers and people coming after your property in past years

 

[across the river]

I keep hearing age should be the determining factor on whether a deer gets killed or not. I agree, but it is just a guess as to how old a deer is before you shoot him. With the trail cam pics, it is a lot easier, but still not 100%, unless you can actually recognize a particular buck year after year.
I have also been doing an experiment with determining a deer’s age after they are on the ground. I have pulled the jaws and front teeth on the last few bucks that my dad, my son, and I have killed over the past 2 seasons. I take the jaw bones to one of our state wildlife biologists to be aged and the front teeth are sent off to deerage.com, where they are analyzed under a microscope. There has been a 3 to 4 year difference in the jaw bone age from the state biologist and the deerage.com age on every deer.

Who higher and who is lower. What are the age differences. 3 to 4 year difference seems drastic.

 

[across the river]

We hunt outside of Augusta and we’ve passed plenty of 120” bucks. We’ve killed several 130-150” bucks in the pass couple of years (gross B&C scores).Genetics are just fine in our area, age and food are major determining factors. I did tag out on a 9 point in late season that wouldn’t score much last year due to age. He was at least 5 1/2 (teeth wear)and weight over 200lbs after the rut. The majority of the bucks killed will never see a public forum through
My close friend in particular has killed a 151”, 145”, & 160” in three different CSRA counties in the past 10 years. But you couldn’t pay him enough to post them on FB. Mainly due to bad experiences with poachers and people coming after your property in past years

That your 150 in your avatar?

 

[deerhuntingdawg]

That your 150 in your avatar?

No he scored 137”. Killed him 10 years ago

 

[deerhuntingdawg]

That your 150 in your avatar?

Here’s a better picture of my avatar buck

 

[Dbender]

I'd like to see a picture of a 100 inch 4 yr old deer. Not a mount, whole deer.

 

[across the river]

I'd like to see a picture of a 100 inch 4 yr old deer. Not a mount, whole deer.

Here you, 90" through 150" or so, though it won't give you age. Most of the smaller ones on here are pretty young.

https://www.slideshare.net/jbeitler/bcscore-on-hoof-3

 

[Away]

Not uncommon. Think mainframe 8 with short tines. Body usually makes the rack look abnormally small.

 

[Dbender]

Just wanted to see a pic of ga deer that is 4 yrs old and 100 inches.

 

[buckpasser]

Just wanted to see a pic of ga deer that is 4 yrs old and 100 inches.

I’ve got a 4.5 that’s a 109 and another that’s 107, Would that be sufficient? I don’t know if I can find the kill pics or not, but I can certainly show you the euros.

 

[buckpasser]

The 109 is almost 100% certainly 4.5 because I watched him for two years. The 107 might be 5.5. I didn’t know him until he popped out at 250 yards and died at 20.

 

[Dbender]

Sure, that's close enough. Euro mount is fine.