buckpasser
Senior Member
You’d never make it at The Mississippi State deer lab! You’d save way too much money! Shame on you Sir!
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Highgrading Buck Herds
- Thread starter Long Cut
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You’d never make it at The Mississippi State deer lab! You’d save way too much money! Shame on you Sir!
Tight Lines
Senior Member
Except common sense isn't so common, and everyone always calls "bull crappie" prove it! So now they proved it, and people like Charlie explain it and back it up...
Killing does hurts in some areas and helps in others. Can’t paint that management practice with such a broad brush.
I hunt Dooly county and it’s almost zoo like. Not going to hurt us one bit to shoot a few every year. I do and and our population is still zoo like.
Yep.
I'm talking about where I hunt. I don't hunt your place. Shooting a doe on my place will get you banned from hunting on my place. Shoot a spike, and I'll congratulate you, and help you skin it. I have hunted a few places with browse lines in the woods where does needed to be shot.
But your remark about killing does was pointed at someone else. Not your place. You said the doe killers were hurting him more than the old guard.
buckpasser
Senior Member
It’s my opinion that pretty much EVERY deer hunters wants to shoot a big buck. If a big racked twelve point steps out with a 20 lb heavier but crappy seven point at his side, the 12 gets smacked every time.
That said, many of the people who’d like to kill bigger bucks aren’t willing to pass younger/smaller bucks to wait on it, and that’s fine by me. I’m happy for anyone who’s happy doing what they’re doing. The major problem I’ve seen is the trophy hunter becoming miserable because others around them aren’t willing to do what they are doing. That sucks for them! I’ve been on both sides of it, but have settled in at a guy who just hunts for fun. I can’t imagine shooting a young buck, but am not offended by it. I definitely wouldn’t spent big money to “maximize” my personal hunting spot’s deer herd like I do for my day job. If I did spend a pile of money, vs just shimmying up a tree in my climber, I’d be more worried about results and therefore going away from my goal-FUN.
Sorry to be part of the the derailing of the thread. Interesting topic.
That said, many of the people who’d like to kill bigger bucks aren’t willing to pass younger/smaller bucks to wait on it, and that’s fine by me. I’m happy for anyone who’s happy doing what they’re doing. The major problem I’ve seen is the trophy hunter becoming miserable because others around them aren’t willing to do what they are doing. That sucks for them! I’ve been on both sides of it, but have settled in at a guy who just hunts for fun. I can’t imagine shooting a young buck, but am not offended by it. I definitely wouldn’t spent big money to “maximize” my personal hunting spot’s deer herd like I do for my day job. If I did spend a pile of money, vs just shimmying up a tree in my climber, I’d be more worried about results and therefore going away from my goal-FUN.
Sorry to be part of the the derailing of the thread. Interesting topic.
In most places, yes. Witness all the "coyotes ate all my deer " threads. It wasn't the coyotes. It was your doe-shooting neighbor.
SRShunter
Senior Member
As long as you aren't breaking the law. Shoot what you wanna. I'm sure this one has been beat around a few many times. There will probably never be a great solution, but I will tell you life is short and we won't be here long so try and enjoy it folks.
rugerfan
Senior Member
Ok my perspective on this from my point of view. I unfortunately have a very busy life with a ton of responsibility, so my days in the woods are limited, I also hunt a piece of public land that is bordered on 3 sides of the approximately 700-acre parallelogram shaped piece, by private land. Yes, don't get me wrong, I would love to get a 140, 150 or 160 class Buck from that area, even a 130 inch buck, but let us get real for a moment, I am not the only person that hunts that public land that I am talking about, and I know people just like myself that when the chips are down and the freezer is empty, antler size does not matter much, and my thought process is that the does are potentially carrying next year's deer, so I will be shooting the smaller buck. I am sure if the doe population gets out of touch with the area, then the officials will change the amount of doe days that are allowed on the ONF. Then I might consider taking a doe or two to do my part.
Crakajak
Daily Driveler News Team
I used to be a farmer.I changed before I became a poor farmer..
I like killing big deer,but I,m not spending a my retirement money on protein,corn .I do plant a small food plot,but I also enjoy the sport a lot more now.
Triple C
Senior Member
This one went from a study by MSU deer lab to trophy huntin and deer farming. Since we’re headed in that direction I’ll fall into the deer farming camp. Prolly need to go to a 12 step program to overcome my addiction.
Keep 12 to 15 acres planted each yr. All are lip high right now.
Working on getting em tame enough to pet.
Rack full of does n pigs shot on an afternoon hunt the last week of season. Happy, happy kids n dads.
Not a single racked buck shot all yr as we “trophy” hunt. No trophies big enough that we wanted to shoot this past season. Enjoyed watching quite a few toddler/adolescent bucks. Pretty sure we helped supply a good number of young bucks for the neighborhood.
As for the MSU Deer Lab…I never miss an episode of their podcast.
Keep 12 to 15 acres planted each yr. All are lip high right now.
Working on getting em tame enough to pet.
Rack full of does n pigs shot on an afternoon hunt the last week of season. Happy, happy kids n dads.
Not a single racked buck shot all yr as we “trophy” hunt. No trophies big enough that we wanted to shoot this past season. Enjoyed watching quite a few toddler/adolescent bucks. Pretty sure we helped supply a good number of young bucks for the neighborhood.
As for the MSU Deer Lab…I never miss an episode of their podcast.
Darkwater
Member
Tell that to deer farmers...if letting Zeus eat a little more Buck Muscle and live a year or two longer was the trick...why do they pay 100k for a vile of genetics?
Long Cut
Senior Member
Just throwing this out-there, not really trying to stir the preverbal pot with those that fall into the old trap of once inferior/always inferior or once a spike/always a spike - but the science and biology seems to be very clear - an "inferior" racked buck at 1.5, 2.5. or even 3.5 does not always equate to an "inferior" racked buck at full maturity. My thoughts are that the real high grading occurs when those "inferior" (understanding everyone's inferior may mean a different thing) for your property is not killed at 5.5 or 6.5 simply because his rack is deemed "inferior" but the 2.5/3.5 are killed based only on "better than average or non-inferior" antler inches. But as it is, a hunter or deer farmer is not likely to be able to make the assumption that an "inferior" 3.5 yr old will remain an "inferior" 5.5 yr old... so the jest of all this is IF you make the choice to be a deer farmer or manager kill bucks based on AGE - at least 4.5 which is about 90% of antler potential expressed, and even 5.5-6.5 to be 100% confident that that specific buck at the time of his death had maximized his potential antler growth at that specific moment in time - he is what he is. He has expressed his full potential based on all of the other variable factors, some of which deer farmers/mangers can control, some not.
J Gilbert
Senior Member
Funny enough, that's how your replies feel on every single thread where people are discussing trying to improve the quality of the bucks on their land instead of shooting spikes and 3 pointers and being happy with that. Very much comes across as exactly what you accused him of, whether you mean it that way or not.
It's hard to read intent and tone in a typed format. To be clear, I have nothing against trophy hunting, managing deer as you see fit, and hunting how you want for your enjoyment. What I don't like is anybody being forced to hunt a certain way, such as forced antler restrictions, or folks getting mad at their neighbors and trashing them because they aren't on the same page as them with trophy management. There is plenty of room out there to hunt how you want. Not everyone is the same, no matter how much some try to make it that way.
J Gilbert
Senior Member
I completely agree; I hunt with and talk to a large group of people with varying standards and expectations, including the OP, and frankly as long as people are hunting ethically, legally, and within whatever guidelines they've agreed to or set, they're welcome to do what they want.
I only commented on your post because you accused someone else of being condescending, when his post was very much in line with the subject of the thread.
I simply find it ironic when for a few years now, it has been like clockwork - a new thread about buck management comes up and within 24-48 hours you post about people being "deer farmers" and people turning deer into livestock, which makes you sound condescending and like you're hating on people who choose a different hunting path than you.
As you said, intent is hard to read in a forum setting, and that's completely fair, but the same diatribe of "I shoot little bucks and am happy" on every management thread is exhausting and adds nothing to the conversation the posters are trying to drive.
So that I'm actually adding something to the thread myself, I think high-grading is a very common practice in a lot of hunting clubs and other managed land. When trying to set minimums in a place where people are actively managing a herd, you want to make rules that protect the top deer from every age class until maturity, whatever you define that as.
Don Higgins, one of the top deer managers in the world, has been doing the same things outlined in the book for 20+ years on his farm in Illinois. He manages for the top tier deer, and has friends and family help with his management plan by removing the deer with less potential from his herd beginning at 2-3 years old, leaving all the resources for the deer that will grow the biggest racks. When resources are the limiting factor, which is definitely the case in the Southeast more so than in some other places across the whitetail's range, prioritizing the resource availability for the deer with the highest potential over one with less potential is a great way to ensure both herd health and highest production for antler size. This has resulted in an average antler size of a mature (5+ year old) buck growing from 150" to be 170", with the change happening somewhere around years 8 to 10 on Don Higgins' farm.
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Triple C
Senior Member
I've never known any hunter that was forced to hunt a certain way. I know many that choose to join a club with like-mined folks with common goals - whether it be shoot what you want or antler/age restrictions. Others buy their own land to manage and hunt as they so choose. Others hunt public and shoot what they desire.
Also, I've never met a deer farmer. I know they exist where they breed em in enclosed pens and such. But never have been able to make the connection of folks that manage their own land to their choosing and then referred to as a deer farmer.
Also, I've never met a deer farmer. I know they exist where they breed em in enclosed pens and such. But never have been able to make the connection of folks that manage their own land to their choosing and then referred to as a deer farmer.
It goes back further than that and the reason wasn't about not caring what it was. There were limited doe days and mature bucks were scarce as hen's teeth. Back in the day you took what showed up and if that was a forkhorn 4 pointer you killed it and felt good about it because the population was small. I hunted entire seasons without seeing a single deer and if I did it was a doe and it wasn't a doe day.
