God’s Got This

[bullethead]

Waddams,
to Clarify, I am not poking fun at you or belittling you. I do not think less of you. I truly get interested when a person tells me how god operates and I get especially interested when they tell me that they have been touched by the HS and now possess understandings beyond even all other believers who have told me they also have been gifted special understandings.
I try to find out what reasons would prevent these different individuals from being unanimous in agreement if in fact they are all given the same gift from the same god.
I hope you can understand my reasonings for my questions to you a little better now.

 

[Waddams]

So have you been touched by the Holy Spirit?
And if So, the result of that has left you with a total understanding of what God thinks, feels, wants and you are able to speak for him?

I do believe the Holy Spirit has touched me. I don't believe it makes me anymore special or better than any other person, though.

It resulted in me seeking to know God better, studying, etc. Reading scripture as well as consulting with others that have read it more than me.

As for are believers able to speak for God, in a fashion yes. For those that want to hear, when Christ ascended to Heaven, he commissioned the disciples to go out and spread the gospel, and make more disciples. In that fashion, he commissioned his disciples here on Earth to continue to speak for Him. However, as I said before, I do believe that His Word actually speaks for Him much better than I can, but "hearing" how the Word speaks for him requires one to basically give themselves up to it first.

Christ even spoke of it being better for Him to go so the Holy Spirit could come. Even the disciples didn't understand what Christ's message was fully until after He ascended and the Holy Spirit descended on them at Pentecost. That's when it all came together, Peter gave his sermon, and the first 3000 were converted. At least I think it was 3000. From there, the disciples went out spreading the Word.

I understand that is what you believe. I believe something totally different.
Are you saying then that since you believe that is what god wants that you have not been contacted by the Holy Spirit and are unable to know what god wants so you have to guess and go with that belief?

I'm not certain that you're really asking a question.

 

[Waddams]

I would tend to think that if a God was involved at all...such thoughts and beliefs would not only be unanimous but 100% infallible and unable to be questioned.

What about free will? God gave us free will. Part of that is free will to go our own way, at the cost of the price we pay for it. With free will, we can question anything. What you are suggestion couldn't be accomplished without taking away free will.

 

[Waddams]

What was the purpose of Jesus dying on the cross? To save Humans from their sin, correct?
If it covers all sin that had already happened and all future sin, then your explanation does not fit. Jesus's death covered our accountability.

I covered this originally, but Christ's dying on the cross purpose was for a sinless man to finally be justified in being resurrected. And only Christ was able to live a human life and meet that standard. It gives Him the authority to stand before God and say "they are mine now and under my authority" in reference to us. It gives him the authority to declare us justified and grant us grace. That's demonstrated in Revelation when none but the slaughtered lamb are worthy to stand before the throne and open the scroll.

Without becoming a man and paying the price He did, Christ would not have been granted this authority by the Father. I realize that might not well accepted even by other Christians.

 

[bullethead]

What about free will? God gave us free will. Part of that is free will to go our own way, at the cost of the price we pay for it. With free will, we can question anything. What you are suggestion couldn't be accomplished without taking away free will.

You said that being touched by ,or enlightened by The HS allows and individual to better understand God.
The point of the HS doing that would seem to serve a purpose. Correct? The purpose would be to understand and relay the words of God, correct?
Now it seems that you are saying that despite the HS doing this the individual can override the HS by using Free Will, therefore undoing God's work of sending the HS to that individual in the first place.

Idk man, the excuses as to why a God would send a Holy Spirit on a purposeful mission only to have the individual not get the full value of the information due to Free Will seems like a waste of time by God. Why send the HS at all?

 

[Waddams]

So did God create us to fall?
Or did we defy God and trip ourselves?
Are we capable of defying God's plan for us?
I assume you are aware that a number of Christians believe NOTHING happens unless it was at God's direction/plan. Thats why Im asking.

No he didn't create us to fall. He gave us free will, and allowed us to, though. We defied God and tripped ourselves up. And yes, we are capable of defying God's plan for us - that's part of free will that's granted to us.

I know a number Christians believe as you describe, that nothing outside of God's will can happen. I'll respond by reminding them of Jonah - God commanded him to go Nineveh. He defied that command at first before eventually complying. That he could resist and defy demonstrates God has a plan, we have free will to follow or not.

I don't believe it's God's plan for things like virus pandemics to happen in our day at least. He gave authority to Christ, and He otherwise allows bad things to happen as a result of our fallen nature and existence, but He doesn't cause them.

Prior instances such as the flood, or destroying Sodom and Gomorrah, it shows God is not going to allow evil and fallen existence to continue eternally. It's a warning to us as well as a plea for us to get right with Christ because He wants to redeem us, but we have to chose to let him.

 

[bullethead]

I covered this originally, but Christ's dying on the cross purpose was for a sinless man to finally be justified in being resurrected. And only Christ was able to live a human life and meet that standard. It gives Him the authority to stand before God and say "they are mine now and under my authority" in reference to us. It gives him the authority to declare us justified and grant us grace. That's demonstrated in Revelation when none but the slaughtered lamb are worthy to stand before the throne and open the scroll.

Without becoming a man and paying the price He did, Christ would not have been granted this authority by the Father. I realize that might not well accepted even by other Christians.

Jesus is God. God is Jesus. He was granted the authority the minute he was conceived.
I will ask you.
Is God, Jesus and the HS all one or are they three separate entities that all exist individually and serve separate purposes towards the same goal?

 

[Waddams]

Waddams,
to Clarify, I am not poking fun at you or belittling you. I do not think less of you. I truly get interested when a person tells me how god operates and I get especially interested when they tell me that they have been touched by the HS and now possess understandings beyond even all other believers who have told me they also have been gifted special understandings.
I try to find out what reasons would prevent these different individuals from being unanimous in agreement if in fact they are all given the same gift from the same god.
I hope you can understand my reasonings for my questions to you a little better now.

I understand. I don't have any intention of trying to make you believe either. That's not in my power.

As for possessing understandings better than other believers, I do believe a Christian's walk is referred to in many places in the Bible and it's stated that some are farther along than others.

If this didn't come across before, I'll restate it, I present this as my best understanding, but fully realize I don't know it all. I'm not perfect, my understanding isn't perfect. I hope to learn more and grow more in my faith and in my relationship with God. As that happens, I might very well revise things I'm saying.

 

[bullethead]

No he didn't create us to fall. He gave us free will, and allowed us to, though. We defied God and tripped ourselves up. And yes, we are capable of defying God's plan for us - that's part of free will that's granted to us.

I know a number Christians believe as you describe, that nothing outside of God's will can happen. I'll respond by reminding them of Jonah - God commanded him to go Nineveh. He defied that command at first before eventually complying. That he could resist and defy demonstrates God has a plan, we have free will to follow or not.

I don't believe it's God's plan for things like virus pandemics to happen in our day at least. He gave authority to Christ, and He otherwise allows bad things to happen as a result of our fallen nature and existence, but He doesn't cause them.

Prior instances such as the flood, or destroying Sodom and Gomorrah, it shows God is not going to allow evil and fallen existence to continue eternally. It's a warning to us as well as a plea for us to get right with Christ because He wants to redeem us, but we have to chose to let him.

According to the Flood Story, Sodom/Gomorrah....God Killed them all for disobedience.
How does Free Will play into God giving it to Us and then killing us for our choices?
I am not understanding how we can defy something that we have absolutely zero knowledge of what IT wants, demands or expects...ESPECIALLY if this entity has built in a Free Will clause that allows to make our own choices.

Basically, you don't have to do what I want but if you don't I will punish you.
Well, what do you want me to do?
Oh nothing, but it better be correct or else.

 

[Waddams]

Jesus is God. God is Jesus. He was granted the authority the minute he was conceived.
I will ask you.
Is God, Jesus and the HS all one or are they three separate entities that all exist individually and serve separate purposes towards the same goal?

I might have a departure from what other believers believe in this, but there are two aspects to this - one is the nature of the Trinity. I addressed it originally but I think there's a spiritual component we lack to be able to understand it. I can't explain how it works to you.

As for granting authority, I do believe in the Sovereignty of the Father, the Son is subservient to the Father, and the HS is subservient to both, while at the same time all 3 are part of what I've heard called "the God Head" - the 3-in-1 Trinity. That's my belief.

And I don't believe Jesus was granted all authority at his conception. I believe He was granted that authority later - there's a point in the Gospels when He says it has happened. At the ascension He told the disciples He was going to his Father's house to prepare a room for us. When He ascended and got back to Heaven, what he did was revealed to John and recorded in Revelation as he was the only one found worth to be able to open the scroll - He was the only one with the authority as granted by the Father.

 

[WaltL1]

No he didn't create us to fall. He gave us free will, and allowed us to, though. We defied God and tripped ourselves up. And yes, we are capable of defying God's plan for us - that's part of free will that's granted to us.

I know a number Christians believe as you describe, that nothing outside of God's will can happen. I'll respond by reminding them of Jonah - God commanded him to go Nineveh. He defied that command at first before eventually complying. That he could resist and defy demonstrates God has a plan, we have free will to follow or not.

I don't believe it's God's plan for things like virus pandemics to happen in our day at least. He gave authority to Christ, and He otherwise allows bad things to happen as a result of our fallen nature and existence, but He doesn't cause them.

Prior instances such as the flood, or destroying Sodom and Gomorrah, it shows God is not going to allow evil and fallen existence to continue eternally. It's a warning to us as well as a plea for us to get right with Christ because He wants to redeem us, but we have to chose to let him.

Prior instances such as the flood

How about those little bloating, waterlogged baby bodies, not to mention the unborn fetuses? Did they exercise their free will and defy God? Or were they just collateral damage?
Harsh question, yes. Maybe even in poor taste. But a realistic question none the less.

 

[Waddams]

According to the Flood Story, Sodom/Gomorrah....God Killed them all for disobedience.
How does Free Will play into God giving it to Us and then killing us for our choices?

It shows if we use our free will for evil, God will eventually stop said evil. It also shows God is patient and gives a chance for repentance first as He didn't smite the evil ones the instant they did something evil.

It shows there is universal morality, good, evil, as well, and God is Sovereign and has defined it all according to His will. Our thinking that basically questions that is just plain wrong - rebellious and disobedient.

We have free will to make our choices, and then the responsibility to live with the consequences, some of which can and really will include God destroying those that use their free will to chose evil. That's clear - in Revelation and other scripture, it's expressly stated that the wicked will be thrown into the lake of fire, burned away in the end. God's Sovereign, he defines the Wicked. The Son has authority, but the Son is still obedient to the Father and uses His authority per the Father's will.

 

[bullethead]

I might have a departure from what other believers believe in this, but there are two aspects to this - one is the nature of the Trinity. I addressed it originally but I think there's a spiritual component we lack to be able to understand it. I can't explain how it works to you.

So again, it is more about an individual understanding rather than a gift for many to be able to understand it exactly as god intends..

As for granting authority, I do believe in the Sovereignty of the Father, the Son is subservient to the Father, and the HS is subservient to both, while at the same time all 3 are part of what I've heard called "the God Head" - the 3-in-1 Trinity. That's my belief.

I get that, it is what works for you. That is your truth but not necessarily something every other Christian believes because (if true) the HS is sent to allow a person to understand it but the person either by will or something else does not understand fully.

And I don't believe Jesus was granted all authority at his conception. I believe He was granted that authority later - there's a point in the Gospels when He says it has happened. At the ascension He told the disciples He was going to his Father's house to prepare a room for us. When He ascended and got back to Heaven, what he did was revealed to John and recorded in Revelation as he was the only one found worth to be able to open the scroll - He was the only one with the authority as granted by the Father.

Do you worship one god or three?
Which one(s) do you worship or when and why do you separate one from the rest instead of just talking to the original god?

 

[bullethead]

It shows if we use our free will for evil, God will eventually stop said evil. It also shows God is patient and gives a chance for repentance first as He didn't smite the evil ones the instant they did something evil.

It shows there is universal morality, good, evil, as well, and God is Sovereign and has defined it all according to His will. Our thinking that basically questions that is just plain wrong - rebellious and disobedient.

We have free will to make our choices, and then the responsibility to live with the consequences, some of which can and really will include God destroying those that use their free will to chose evil. That's clear - in Revelation and other scripture, it's expressly stated that the wicked will be thrown into the lake of fire, burned away in the end. God's Sovereign, he defines the Wicked. The Son has authority, but the Son is still obedient to the Father and uses His authority per the Father's will.

Walt touched on it but again what about the babies? What about the people who never heard of God? Were the animals evil?

 

[Waddams]

How about those little bloating, waterlogged baby bodies, not to mention the unborn fetuses? Did they exercise their free will and defy God? Or were they just collateral damage?
Harsh question, yes. Maybe even in poor taste. But a realistic question none the less.

Walt touched on it but again what about the babies? What about the people who never heard of God? Were the animals evil?

I don't actually see it as in poor taste, and harsh though it is, I'm glad you asked because it's deserving of discussion. There are aspects of this subject matter that are actually very harsh.

Little bloating, waterlogged baby bodies, unborn fetuses - etc. It shows we are subject to the pitfalls of fallen existence from the instant of conception. Miscarried babies, 6 month olds that die from diarrhea in Trump's "3rd world ****hole countries", etc. For our entire existence in this life - we are in peril and at risk. It can happen by our embryo not implanting right, our mother's womb not working right, or being aborted, or while still helpless as an infant any number of things that can happen.

This exact subject - that basically of innocents that didn't get the chance at the receiving the Grace offered by Christ - is where my thinking on the 2nd Resurrection being a chance for redemption through works originated from. It's different than what's offered now via grace (1st resurrection). I don't believe that the Saints in the 1st Resurrection will be just living in paradise on Earth with nothing to do but be free. The 1000 year kingdom, I suspect, will be a time of preparation. I wonder if those in the 1st Resurrection will be working to prepare for the 2nd Resurrection and be ready to do a part in saving the rest of humanity. I wonder if they will have the chance at redemption via works after their resurrection to physical life. Like I said before, I have to think in that scenario, the only people that will reject God's offer will be the truly wicked.

 

[bullethead]

Why make humans who you already know exactly what they are going to do EONS before they ever do it and then punish them?
Why kill them for doing as designed?
Starting over
And then knowing they will turn out the same way sacrifice your son even though you already know nothing has or will change?

I have a hard time seeing anything God-like in any of that.
But I do see 100% human excuses for 100% human actions for things they want to be true but make no sense.

 

[Waddams]

Do you worship one god or three?
Which one(s) do you worship or when and why do you separate one from the rest instead of just talking to the original god?

See prior comments regarding the Trinity. As confusing as they admittedly are!

I've tried to come up with a better explanation, a way spiritually explain the 3 separate but still the same God, 3-in-1 Trinity of God. It's not a good explanation, but the best I've been able to come up with as a comparison is the human body. We've got one body, comprised of different parts. Same DNA, the parts are all "us", and make up a whole. Yet they are also different parts and do different functions. I don't think it's a good example that illustrates the Trinity, but it's the best I've been able to come up with.

Again - I don't think humanity is endowed with the ability to perceive the reality of it. I wonder if that will change after resurrection/glorification? But that's purely a speculative thought of my own.

 

[bullethead]

I don't actually see it as in poor taste, and harsh though it is, I'm glad you asked because it's deserving of discussion. There are aspects of this subject matter that are actually very harsh.

Little bloating, waterlogged baby bodies, unborn fetuses - etc. It shows we are subject to the pitfalls of fallen existence from the instant of conception. Miscarried babies, 6 month olds that die from diarrhea in Trump's "3rd world ****hole countries", etc. For our entire existence in this life - we are in peril and at risk. It can happen by our embryo not implanting right, our mother's womb not working right, or being aborted, or while still helpless as an infant any number of things that can happen.

This exact subject - that basically of innocents that didn't get the chance at the receiving the Grace offered by Christ - is where my thinking on the 2nd Resurrection being a chance for redemption through works originated from. It's different than what's offered now via grace (1st resurrection). I don't believe that the Saints in the 1st Resurrection will be just living in paradise on Earth with nothing to do but be free. The 1000 year kingdom, I suspect, will be a time of preparation. I wonder if those in the 1st Resurrection will be working to prepare for the 2nd Resurrection and be ready to do a part in saving the rest of humanity. I wonder if they will have the chance at redemption via works after their resurrection to physical life. Like I said before, I have to think in that scenario, the only people that will reject God's offer will be the truly wicked.

Is God aborting the babies or are humans?
God chose to kill everyone but 8 on the planet. Nobody else did.

Jesus was here and gone. Said these things will be done in that generation. Not thousands of years later.
Jesus was Jew and nothing in Judaism tells of these future happenings.
Jesus does not fulfil the prophecies of the Jewish Messiah.
Jesus did not set out to have a religion split from Judaism towards him.
He wanted the way Judaism was headed to go back towards old school Torah Judaism.

This other stuff is the work of many others except Jesus.

 

[bullethead]

See prior comments regarding the Trinity. As confusing as they admittedly are!

I've tried to come up with a better explanation, a way spiritually explain the 3 separate but still the same God, 3-in-1 Trinity of God. It's not a good explanation, but the best I've been able to come up with as a comparison is the human body. We've got one body, comprised of different parts. Same DNA, the parts are all "us", and make up a whole. Yet they are also different parts and do different functions. I don't think it's a good example that illustrates the Trinity, but it's the best I've been able to come up with.

Again - I don't think humanity is endowed with the ability to perceive the reality of it. I wonder if that will change after resurrection/glorification? But that's purely a speculative thought of my own.

I'll agree. Not a good example.
It just doesn't work

 

[Waddams]

Why make humans who you already know exactly what they are going to do EONS before they ever do it and then punish them?
Why kill them for doing as designed?
Starting over
And then knowing they will turn out the same way sacrifice your son even though you already know nothing has or will change?

I have a hard time seeing anything God-like in any of that.
But I do see 100% human excuses for 100% human actions for things they want to be true but make no sense.

God the Father is a creator. It's what He does. As for what else was in His mind motivating it, I don't know. He's not accountable to us, He doesn't explain it to us. Part of my faith is accepting that. I believe He did create us and that's what matters to me.

As He's outside of time, the beginning and the end, He knows what we will do because He's already seen it. Within the framework of our existence, we still have free will, and we reap what we sow with that free will.

As for killing people for doing as designed - I would ask you to consider maybe they weren't doing as designed. Though fallen, we still have free will and know good from evil. We were designed for better, and though fallen, we still can make choices to act better than our fallen nature does to us.

And again - sacrifice of Jesus was to change us and redeem us through resurrection. It wasn't to change us in this life.

Our free will makes us 100% responsible for the fallout of our actions, including the actions that led to the Fall the consequences that have dogged us every since.

Is God aborting the babies or are humans?
God chose to kill everyone but 8 on the planet. Nobody else did.

People abort babies. God doesn't cause it. He allows it, though, because it's part of the nature of being in a fallen existence. And he will address and fix it via the 1st and 2nd resurrections.

And yes, God killed the wicked in the flood. And they'll be resurrected to judgement. He did it to show the example that He's going to "wash away" sin, it won't be allowed to persist eternally.