do I have a problem?

[RipperIII]

I was shooting my muzzloader today, trying different load-combos.
777 pellets
power belt bullets
1st three shot group were 295gr hollow points
100yds

First round was right 2" just off the horizontal line
Second two rounds were on the center line but 6" low and touching.

I did not clean between shots

I did clean the barrel for the next group
2nd three shot group were 295gr aero points
First shot was just below horizontal line and 1" right of center

As I loaded the second round, I noticed that the ramrod did not seat all the way down...about 1/2" high
That shot hit the center line 6" low touching the previous two...It occured to me that the previous two rounds were not seated all the way down...about 1/2" from normal.

I cleaned the barrel, loaded the third round and hit bulls eye.

I fired three rounds that were about 1/2" off of the pellets.

Do you think that would cause damage to the barrel?

I pressed each round down as far as I could, apparently there was significant fouling that prevented me for firmly seating the rounds.

Aside from the obvious reduction in velocity, my main concern is whether I could have damaged the barrel from a pressure build up.

What say ya'll?

 

[FrontierGander]

you have been introduced to the T7 Crud Ring. Not fully seating the projectile can cause 2 things that could happen: #1 You barrel could bulge, #2 you could explode the barrel.

Clean it well and oil it and visually inspect the bore and then run your fingers on the outside of the barrel and feel for anything. Running a super tight patch down the bore will also tell you if you have a bulge or not.

With T7 you really should swab between each shot. I know, PITA but that powder is dirty and leaves hard crusty fouling down where the bullet sits.

 

[RipperIII]

Could two pellets do that much damage?
Will the bulge be noticeable?

 

[FrontierGander]

yeah you can notice a bulge. i have a .22 LR with a bulged barrel and its very easy to see with the naked eye.

Yes a short started projectile could easily explode the barrel. Check this out,
http://gandersmuzzleloadingblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/rush-it-this-could-happen-to-you.html

 

[tv_racin_fan]

Frontier that wasn't JUST a short started projectile. As I recall the guy said "Now, it dawned on me as I had no recollection of short starting, it is also entirely possible I had already pushed a ball down onto the powder, and THEN short started another ball." when his buddy tried to ring a barrel he found the way to do so was to short start a second ball.

 

[Flintrock]

As I loaded the second round, I noticed that the ramrod did not seat all the way down...about 1/2" high
I fired three rounds that were about 1/2" off of the pellets.

Do you think that would cause damage to the barrel?

What say ya'll?

.
.
You did not have a problem and you did not damage your rifle.
.
Your breech theoretically shrank in diameter due to the crud build up .When you put the same amount of powder in this same area it simply took up a longer space because the diameter was reduced.When you placed the bullet on top is appears to be not seated when it acutally is seated.
.
When this occurs do not try to hammer is down to the "normal area". If you do then you are crushing the powder and forcing 100 grains of powder meant for say 85 grains.This will cause the rifle high. If you dont clean it and dont hammer it down, your rifle will on average shoot low.
.
Simpy clean between shots so that your powder will be housed in the same area everytime to give you a consistant load and your accuracy will be enhanced

 

[RipperIII]

I ran my fingers up and down th barrel with no discernible bulge, its clean and I can see no damage.
Thanks for ya'lls input...I'll clean after every shot now thank you very much.

 

[miles58]

I ran my fingers up and down th barrel with no discernible bulge, its clean and I can see no damage.
Thanks for ya'lls input...I'll clean after every shot now thank you very much.

One last thing... Quit shooting the 777 and go find a pound of Blackhorn 209.

 

[RipperIII]

One last thing... Quit shooting the 777 and go find a pound of Blackhorn 209.

I'm gonna try that next.

 

[Jim Thompson]

rip, also remember that you do not needto CLEAN between shots, you need to swab between shots.

when I shot 777 I used one damp patch (windex works fine) and then one dry patch. leave the breech plug in when doing so.

 

[RipperIII]

Funny thing was, I've shot probably 20 rounds with out that ring developing,...I was shooting primarily the platinum powerbelts...which are reputed to seat easier, maybe that is why I didn't notice it before.
Also, the three "unseated" bullets all shot 6" low at 100yds ...and touched!?

 

[Jim Thompson]

Funny thing was, I've shot probably 20 rounds with out that ring developing,...I was shooting primarily the platinum powerbelts...which are reputed to seat easier, maybe that is why I didn't notice it before.
Also, the three "unseated" bullets all shot 6" low at 100yds ...and touched!?

shooting 777 means the ring (along with all the crud in the barrel) was there no questions asked, but it gets more pronounced as the shooting goes on. typically when I was shooting 777 after about 3 shots without swabbing it was almost impossible to push the bullet down. in my experience, the powerbelts did not fit as tight in my barrel as a saboted bullet, which could be why you were not noticing the ring.

why it would shoot 6" low on three unseated bullets is anybodies guess

either way, in the future when shooting 777, to get the most consistency from your gun you should swab between shots...or at least swab between every 2-3 shots.

 

[FrontierGander]

unseated bullets = higher pressures building up thanks to that 1/2" gap between the powder and the bullet. Mark your ramrod and if its even above that, push the load out and clean it.

 

[Flintrock]

Also, the three "unseated" bullets all shot 6" low at 100yds ...and touched!?

.
In archery terms.It is sort ok like this.You have a 30inch draw length on a 70 lb bow,You pulled back your bow 29 1/2 inches. You will shoot low at the longer distances.
.
I think you seated the powerbelt but you may not be able to seat a sabot with out cleaning it.They tend to load a bit tighter.
.
In short,just swab it between shots and you will do fine

 

[jkoch]

Get rid of the pellets and use 777 powder, my Knight MK85 loves it. 90 gr. pushing a Sabot Nosler 260 gr Partition.

 

[RipperIII]

Scrubbed that barrel out good tonight, then scrubbed it again.
Could not see any visible signs of damage, may take it to a gunsmith, have him put a bore scope on it.
I will definitely be swabbing between every shot from now on.
I'm still amazed that the three "unseated" rounds printed a 1" group...

 

[miles58]

Ripper,

Start shooting the Black Horn 209 and work out a load that you gun likes and it ought to shoot an inch or better. You'll probably find that somewhere between 90 and 110 grains by volume of BH-209 will be very accurate with 250 grain saboted ammo.

Dave

 

[docduncan]

777 pellets

This will not hurt your barrel. The pellets are designed for air. Think about a pellet in a 45 Colt case. There is air, a little is ok, more than a few inches will be like a stopper and the air will compress and possibly buldge the barrel.
777 is good stuff, great for hunting.
Doc

 

[Sharps40]

I keep hearing about the crud ring with 777 but have not experienced it. I shoot Lee REAL, TC Maxi and patched Round Ball in several 45 and 50 caliber muzzleloaders. The lube for each is 50/50 beeswax/vasoline. Is the crud ring perhaps only and issue when shooting Sabot projectiles, i.e. unlubricated projectiles? Do you think a lubricated felt wad between the powder and sabot would help?

V.R.

 

[Jim Thompson]

I keep hearing about the crud ring with 777 but have not experienced it. I shoot Lee REAL, TC Maxi and patched Round Ball in several 45 and 50 caliber muzzleloaders. The lube for each is 50/50 beeswax/vasoline. Is the crud ring perhaps only and issue when shooting Sabot projectiles, i.e. unlubricated projectiles? Do you think a lubricated felt wad between the powder and sabot would help?

V.R.

could be the lube on the patch is keeping the ring at a minimum. normally with a saboted bullet you have nothing to cut the friction and build up of gunk in the barrel. if you use a lubed patch when loading that is somewhat swabbing the barrel...probably