Paul's salutations, no Holy Spirit?

Here is another:
The KJV translates Strong's G2962 in the following manner: Lord (667x), lord (54x), master (11x), sir (6x), Sir (6x), miscellaneous (4x).
 
Thread starter #82
A couple of things I was looking into. One was that we are made in the image of God. God is a Trinity so therefore so are we. God being spirit, body, and soul. Man in that image being spirit, body, and soul.
 
Thread starter #83
The other thing is that some people believe the the Holy Spirit is Jesus. Thus the term Holy Ghost. Starting with whose spirit was resurrected. Jesus said he would send another Comforter. Jesus in body being the first Comforter and his spirit to return being the "another."
Jesus being a man may have his own spirit. I guess that spirit went an preached before his resurrection. Although Jesus said God would send the Spirit. Jesus also talked about himself in third party such as you should believe in the Son, etc.

1 Corinthians 15:45
Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
(Jesus "became?")

The Scriptures tell us, "The first man, Adam, became a living person." But the last Adam--that is, Christ--is a life-giving Spirit.
(Maybe a better translation.)

2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
(is this the Spirit of God or Jesus Paul is referring to?)

Then we've got in Acts to be baptized in the name of Jesus to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Thoughts? It gets really confusing to me if Jesus had two spirits, one being God and the other his man spirit. Unless it's the same unity we have. Our two spirits, one our man spirit and the other God's Spirit.

So I would assume if one believed the Holy Spirit was that of Jesus, it would have to be his human spirit and not God's Spirit.
 
We need to factor in the beliefs of the writers at the time period they wrote it to understand what it is that they intended to say. Otherwise, we would be putting words in their mouth. I don't think early church fathers nor NT writers ever believed in Body, spirit and soul. Body and Spirit, yes, the soul and spirit being used interchangeable, not separate.
 
The other thing is that some people believe the the Holy Spirit is Jesus. Thus the term Holy Ghost. Starting with whose spirit was resurrected. Jesus said he would send another Comforter. Jesus in body being the first Comforter and his spirit to return being the "another."
Jesus being a man may have his own spirit. I guess that spirit went an preached before his resurrection. Although Jesus said God would send the Spirit. Jesus also talked about himself in third party such as you should believe in the Son, etc.

1 Corinthians 15:45
Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
(Jesus "became?")

The Scriptures tell us, "The first man, Adam, became a living person." But the last Adam--that is, Christ--is a life-giving Spirit.
(Maybe a better translation.)

2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
(is this the Spirit of God or Jesus Paul is referring to?)

Then we've got in Acts to be baptized in the name of Jesus to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Thoughts? It gets really confusing to me if Jesus had two spirits, one being God and the other his man spirit. Unless it's the same unity we have. Our two spirits, one our man spirit and the other God's Spirit.

So I would assume if one believed the Holy Spirit was that of Jesus, it would have to be his human spirit and not God's Spirit.
The whole spirit concept sort of freaks me out, Jesus becoming one with the Father, us becoming one with Christ. I honestly don't see it. No where. No where have I ever witnessed a true Christ like life. I have seen equal good come from secular people. I have seen equal good done by secular organizations. I have never seen a paralyzed man get up and walk.I have never seen anything that resembles a higher power living in us. That's hard for me to admit, because I have believed it so..... because it was written. But truly Paul believed it so. And taught it. Context is that man had no power to change his nature proved by 1000's of years of trying. So God made a new covenant that his spirit dwell in us giving us overcoming power..... and being an eternal spirit, thus we shall die only a physical death. But sadly, I don't see it. Every church I ever been in did not display it. Speaking in tounges is a mere joke. No one has the gift of miracles, no one has the gift of "true" love. One might say that just because you have not experienced it does not mean it's not so. True, but I have seen it NO where. And if anyone says they have experienced it, then I would point them to secular people whom have had "experiences" as well. The only difference in me and another is that I am brave enough to admit it. For someone whom will say, "i was delivered from drugs"...... hmmmm, just as many secular can say the same. If I really look to the scriptures, I should see REAL miracles, in my day. I should see churches with power, not membership. If you ask anything in my name, I will do it..... Hmmmm, at this point, I have to consider that Jesus did not say this
 
Thread starter #86
What does one make of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? What about the fruit of the Holy Spirit? The awakening by the Holy Spirit? True it may only be another name of God's spirit but isn't there enough scripture that God or Jesus sent a Comforter/Helper?

If Paul believed it then shouldn't we? If Jesus was just a man, didn't he have to have the anointing of God's spirit to do what he did? The anointing to let him use the power of God? Isn't that where Jesus said he got all of his power?

Isn't the fruit of the Spirit the proof one needs that their salvation took?
 
Thread starter #87
Was thinking about when people say God blesses them more than non-believers. Then when Christians get sick or loose a job they quote the verse about God rains on the just and unjust.
Maybe people do read into or out of the Bible what they want it to say.

I can see where one would think maybe this indwelling doesn't help or comfort. I will admit it that I see the rain on the just and unjust equally even with the indwelling of the Spirit.
Some Christian drug abusers make it through rehab and some don't. Some Atheist drug users make it and some don't.

Ezekiel 36:27
"I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

It appears it didn't help the Jews or God's Chosen back in the Old Testament. They had the Holy Spirit.

From Paul;
1 Corinthians 3:16
Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
(Notice "the Spirit of Him")

What about all of those verses Paul wrote about that will keep someone from inheriting the Kingdom of God? Even with the indwelling of God's Spirit, we still need such warnings.

I can see it too. Just not always sure what to make of it.
 
Thread starter #88
We need to factor in the beliefs of the writers at the time period they wrote it to understand what it is that they intended to say. Otherwise, we would be putting words in their mouth. I don't think early church fathers nor NT writers ever believed in Body, spirit and soul. Body and Spirit, yes, the soul and spirit being used interchangeable, not separate.
Maybe if they could justify their own trinity, they could see being made in the image of God as a Trinity. It appears though it has always been more about just Two. The Father and his Son. Body and Spirit. Man's body and spirit. Flesh and spirit. The Light and evil.

I hear mind, body, and spirit used sometimes. But if sin is from flesh and death is from flesh then the mind would have to be part of that flesh. That leaves only spirit that can be born of Spirit.
 
Thread starter #89
Posted this on something else but maybe this topic is related to ruling and reigning. The head of Christ is God; Where is the Holy Spirit in this verse?

1 Corinthians 11:3
But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Could this all be connected? Father and Son? Male and female humans? The Bridegroom and the Bride? As to who is head of who?
 

Israel

Senior Member
The whole spirit concept sort of freaks me out, Jesus becoming one with the Father, us becoming one with Christ. I honestly don't see it. No where. No where have I ever witnessed a true Christ like life. I have seen equal good come from secular people. I have seen equal good done by secular organizations. I have never seen a paralyzed man get up and walk.I have never seen anything that resembles a higher power living in us. That's hard for me to admit, because I have believed it so..... because it was written. But truly Paul believed it so. And taught it. Context is that man had no power to change his nature proved by 1000's of years of trying. So God made a new covenant that his spirit dwell in us giving us overcoming power..... and being an eternal spirit, thus we shall die only a physical death. But sadly, I don't see it. Every church I ever been in did not display it. Speaking in tounges is a mere joke. No one has the gift of miracles, no one has the gift of "true" love. One might say that just because you have not experienced it does not mean it's not so. True, but I have seen it NO where. And if anyone says they have experienced it, then I would point them to secular people whom have had "experiences" as well. The only difference in me and another is that I am brave enough to admit it. For someone whom will say, "i was delivered from drugs"...... hmmmm, just as many secular can say the same. If I really look to the scriptures, I should see REAL miracles, in my day. I should see churches with power, not membership. If you ask anything in my name, I will do it..... Hmmmm, at this point, I have to consider that Jesus did not say this
If we pin our hopes and understanding (or rather lack of hope) only upon what "we have seen" to know and assume a ready stance to contradiction of any report otherwise, I have a care that such a man is on a course of shipwreck.

I do not say this as a shame. I simply say this as one who is beginning to learn how much, and how often I find myself in the place of needing to see "what I have never seen before". God knows the times and appointments.

I cannot deny I have had, or found myself in winnowing situations. I think we all have. Those places of reduction, those places of being "stripped down" to naked need. Things seemingly lost or taken, upon which we discover in their loss, a footing appears removed. We feel very much at those times...a thing that has been defended and kept covered to assault is now, as our most sensitive part...exposed. Everything seems a torment to it.

Our "hearts" are truly out there. Exposed and vulnerable well beyond our previous imagining as to its sensitivity. A thorns brush against skin may cause a small tear, a scrape...but here...with heart exposed, thorns can inflict mortal wounds.

It's like I see your heart hanging out and would only plead...hang on brother, be careful of throwing away your confidence.

I have no need to "defend" against you...you are where you are. And we are what we are by the grace of God.

The joke you speak of, of tongues may not yet be to us as either perceive.

But a man may come to a place where the truth of the "foolishness of God" being greater than man's wisdom is made to him more than merely a quote. Man speaks to himself...all the time in an assumed knowing. Jesus is privy to these conversations.

One man spoke to his soul of what would be the outcome of building bigger barns.

Some others he warned "And do not say within yourselves 'we have Abraham as our Father' "

A man may be so won to have little regard of even appearing a fool to himself in not knowing to a boasting that the wisdom of God is showered upon him. Such a man said "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than you all" It was of so little consequence to him that he "makes sense to himself" for all his previous sensing of order had been shown for what it was.


Something had totally usurped his necessity of ordering himself, of himself that he became totally unashamed of being a fool for Christ. Such a man was made open to seeing things he had never seen before. And his testimony is full of references to words in which he was so well schooled (The Tanakh) as a man "of letters"...but which, till the Spirit's work within...had remained hidden to his understanding.

I plead with you only as brother, remain open to the God and Father of Jesus Christ, for things likewise you have never seen (yet), nor understood...before. That the power of Christ rest upon you. And God turn all weakness...to strength.

May we all be made ready to see and receive "a thing we have never seen before".
 
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Thread starter #92
1 John 3:16
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

God "laid down his life for us".
Wouldn't that be more of a Oneness belief? That God died on the cross? That would also make God a creature.
Even if Jesus is God, wasn't it his man nature that died? His physical body and perhaps his man spirit. Maybe just his human body.

Now getting back to 1 John 3:16, only a few of the translations use "God". The others use Christ or He.

Interesting to know what the original Greek or Hebrew said. Then again if God gave these men later the power to write his Words, they must all be right.
 
1 John 3:16
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

God "laid down his life for us".
Oh my, dude, you have got to become a bible student. Nowhere in the Greek does it say God. If your going to play apologist, then you have got to learn to check the greek so that you don't keep stepping in your own trap
 
Thread starter #95
Why is Jesus the second person of the Trinity? Why did the second person incarnate instead of the first person of the Trinity?

Then we have the Holy Spirit as the third person. Why wouldn't the Holy Spirit be the first person of the Trinity? Making the Father first person seems to make him have more importance than the second and third persons.
 
Oh my, dude, you have got to become a bible student. Nowhere in the Greek does it say God. If your going to play apologist, then you have got to learn to check the greek so that you don't keep stepping in your own trap
Type in any verse and "biblehub" on the right in blue will be the verse along with the before and after. Then look up higher at the dselection bar. Click the "greek". You can then see the exact greek, even look left and it will show you the greek word, click it, it will show how many times translated as this, or that. You would be able to see that God is not in the verse. It simple say love, not love of God, and it says "he", not God, not Jesus. But we assume it's Jesus. If you assume it's God, then so be it. But you can't play that card as a wildcard
 
Thread starter #97
Oh my, dude, you have got to become a bible student. Nowhere in the Greek does it say God. If your going to play apologist, then you have got to learn to check the greek so that you don't keep stepping in your own trap
OK Builder, here is one for you;

Matthew 12:31
And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

Spirit being pneumatos but exactly how can one blaspheme only one persona of a three persona God? Paul did single out the Spirit of God and not God.

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(31) The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.--Better, against the Spirit, the word "Holy" not being found in any MSS. of authority.

Read this;

"Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit has to do with accusing Jesus Christ of being demon-possessed instead of Spirit-filled."

Maybe then it means they were saying Jesus was performing his works by the magic of demons instead of the Spirit of God.
 
1 John 3:16
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

God "laid down his life for us".
OK Builder, here is one for you;

Matthew 12:31
And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

Spirit being pneumatos but exactly how can one blaspheme only one persona of a three persona God? Paul did single out the Spirit of God and not God.

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(31) The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.--Better, against the Spirit, the word "Holy" not being found in any MSS. of authority.

Read this;

"Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit has to do with accusing Jesus Christ of being demon-possessed instead of Spirit-filled."

Maybe then it means they were saying Jesus was performing his works by the magic of demons instead of the Spirit of God.
Blasphemy was a claim to be God. Someone can claim to be Jesus, or the messiah, and be forgiven. However, no one can claim to be God and be forgiven. The use of HS is just another name, a NT name for God. Context..... Eve did not want to serve God. She wanted to be like him to rival God. This is how the saints will know whom the false antichrist is. Jesus would never claim to be God. If he did then he has become God's rival. But he did not, being made in his image, as man is made in the image of God, he humbled himself, realized that man is meant to serve god, not rival him. He was obedient even to death on a cross. Therefore God was pleased and gave him a name above all names that at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow. He is where he is because he did not rival God. This OT context is so overlooked. It's the basis of everything.
 
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; [the NIV has universe]. The greek word is clearly "ages". The 1st age, the age of grace and the age to come. So much in the bible about the ages
 
Oh my, dude, you have got to become a bible student. Nowhere in the Greek does it say God. If your going to play apologist, then you have got to learn to check the greek so that you don't keep stepping in your own trap
It's translated "love of God" because it's the agape love. A term that had not been used previously . It's the sacrificial love. Godly love.
 
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