Smaller calibers and Ballistic Tips Question?

[Hunting Teacher]

If I am understanding most of you who reload and hunt on this forum, the consensus is that smaller calibers 243, 260 etc are probably better off not using balistic tips in that they often don't go through the deer leaving little blood trail to follow. I was discussing this with the guy from Georgia Arms reloaders at the gun show yesterday and he said that's absolutely incorrect. That a smaller caliber balistic tip is just as likely to pass through a deer as a nosler partition. He was so sure that he talked me out of buying noslers from him so he lost a sale.
My experience with balistic tips has not been great. The shot placements being equal, I've had better personal results with noslers and plain old soft points than with ballistic tips.
Is it just me? Have I just had bad luck with the BT bullets?
Now I will have to say I've never lost a deer after shooting them with a BT, but the trail jobs have been a son of a gun on two of them that were shot well.
I need some advice !
Teach

 

[RamblinWreck]

I will never shoot a Ballistic Tip at a deer again, regardless of caliber. There are so many other bullets that work well and fly just as good.

In my .243 I am loading the 85 gn Partition (for my daughter - 12). Kills 'em dead.

 

[Dustin Pate]

I shoot 100 grain bullets in my .243. They are regular non ballistic tips. They have dropped the 6 deer I have shot with it in their tracks.

 

[Randy]

I love the Ballistic tips. They have never failed me. But you should not try to shoot through shoulders or from end to end on a deer with them either. Put one in the boiler room and it is over! The thing with ballistic tips is Nosler actually makes them for big game and varmints. The varmint bulletts actually have a thinner jacket to "explode" on small varmints. The "break" happens in the 6mm caliber. There are some lightweight 6mm and 25 cal. bullets that are made for varmints with the thinner jacket and there are heavier bullets in 6mm and 25 cal that have the thicker "big game" jacket. That being said, as I have said before, I don't shoot big game with anything less than 7mm. Those small caibers require a perfectly placed shot.

 

[Nitro]

Beatin a dead horse here again..........

We shoot tons of deer in SC every year. I personally will shoot at least 10 probably more with Ballistic tips or a derivative of.

We never lose a deer. Marksmanship is the key. Most are pass through shots.

I killed a Whitetail in Monroe County in 2002 that weighed 244 pounds- .277 cal 140 grain Ballistic tip - DRT.

I just do not have any qualms with shooting deer with Ballistic tips. My log shows over 130 personal kills with BTs.

I like em.

 

[leoparddog]

My 260 Rem and my .02.

I've shot several deer with my 260 and the 120gr BTs. Neck shots and rib shots seem to drop them very nice and they usually haven't gone far.

One doe I hit in the shoulder and I never found her, very little blood trail to follow. The only buck I shot with the 120gr BT - he turned away at the last second and the bullet hit 2 ribs at a very shallow angle and ended up under the hide on his chest. That bullet detonated on the ribs and left a large shallow surface wound the size of my open hand. The found bullet was just the copper jacket which created a small wound channel thru the lungs.

I had a **** of a time tracking him down. If the surface wound hadn't been so large from the bullet exploding - I'd never have found him.

A 120gr BT in .265 cal. is just not tough enough for marginal shots IMO. I can't always guarantee a perfect shot, but I can guarantee that I'm using Partitions from now on

If I can find a pic of that buck I'll post it.

 

[georgiaboy]

I bought a .243 a few months ago and I did some load testing Sat. which really surprised me. I used the Barnes X, Sierra Pro-hunter 100 gr. (flat base), Sierra Gameking 100 gr., and some Hornady 100 grain bullets. All were SPs except the Barnes. All shot very well, everything under an inch with some 3 shot groups just under .50 @ 100. I haven't killed a deer with a .243 that I remember so I will not try to ** that I know all about their performance. I do know that well-constructed bullets shoot great in m rifle so I will use them if I shoot a deer with my .243 this year.

 

[bevills1]

I've had sporratic results with BTs. They seem to work well when loaded between 2900 to 3100 fps, but in my experience expansion often fails at slower velocities while higher velocities results in explosive expansion and limited penetration. The Remington Bronze Point is a much more reliable performer, but unfortunately it's available only in 270 and 30 caliber. I've heard good reports on the Hornady SSTs which are available in all popular calibers, and I'd choose either Bronze Point or SST if I were going to use expanding tipped bullets.

 

[Lead Poison]

I agree with Randy. I've killed several deer with Nosler Ballistic Tips, including 95gr 243s. These bullets will definitely kill when the bullet is placed behind the shoulder on broadside lung shots. They were designed specifically by Nosler for deer hunting.

However, they very often DO NOT completely penetrate, At least, they haven't for me.

As a minimum, I would prefer to hunt with nothing smaller than the 260 Remington using 125gr Partitions or 129gr Hornadys.

When shooting small calibers, I'd strongly suggest using a tougher bullet, like Nosler Partitions. I believe you'll be a lot happier with their performance.

 

[Guy]

Never Again!!

I will never use ballistic tip bullets in my deer hunting rifle again. I used SST's last year. Great accuracy, but doesn't penetrate. One doe I shot in the chest, the bullet just shattered. I have heard this same reason on more than just my experience.

I am using the bullet that all game bullets are judged by. The Nosler Partition. However, I will see what it does this year. Who knows, I may be using a sierra game king next year. :

 

[GeauxLSU]

Great...

..... thanks for confusing me guys.
I shot two deer with my .25-06 last year using factory remington Core-locks. Neither was a pass through (one stopped on an opposit rib) which shocked me. Both deer were shot at approx 100 yards. Neither deer ran more than 60 yards but they ran into some pretty thick pines and did NOT leave a drop of blood. I was nervous tracking them. Both shots were heart/lung though one was quatering towards me. I would not have believed it had I not seen it. I have this thing about not feeling like a rifle is 'broken in' until it takes THREE deer. So I wanted to take one with it this year and was going to try ballistic tips. Now I guess the jury is out. :
I've shot three (total) with Sierra BTs out of my .243 and ALL THREE crumbled dead in their tracks without so much as a kick (furthest was approx 125 yards). Also heart/lung (one literally had no heart left).
I'd like to 'finish off' my .25-06 by taking one more and then go to my dad's old .308 just to take one (it's taken plenty in it's day so this would just be for old time's sake. )
Soooo.... :

Hunt/fish safely,
Phil

 

[Hunting Teacher]

Thanks for the insight everyone.
Think I'll stick to partitions this tear and see what happens.
Hopefully, my daughter gets to test out the nosler on a very large buck with positive results.
Thanks again
Teach

 

[edge]

I agree with Randy and Lead Poison. I like very much the accuracy of BTs, but have found they do not usually penetrate completely. That is what they were designed to do-to expend all their energy inside a deer. I prefer a blood trail however, and only shoot BT's because of the accuracy in one particular rifle. Load testing is another story, because when trying to find an accurate load for deer rifles, I always start with either Ballistic Tips or Sierra Game Kings. These are the most consistently accurate bullets I've found. I will in the future try to find the "other" best accurate load for my .270. It shoots 130 BTs like a dream, and is the go to bullet for long range, but I still would like a stronger bullet.

I load 85 gr. partitions and barnes X in my son's .243, but am still not happy with the results. I would not use BTs is light calibers. just my opinion.

jeff

 

[NorthGaAire]

2nd the use of stronger bullets in .243/6mm

I believe that the .244/6mm diameter cartridges are more hypersensitive to bullet placement and bullet construction than any other cartridge. For a beginning hunter, the 100gr bullets would probably be best until a sharp knowledge of shot placement and shot angle are learned. The ballistic tips in
.244/6mm should be left to the experts. Why risk a beginner's first success with a bullet that 'might not' make it to the vitals on a shoulder or quartering shoulder shot?

I will continue to use the Ballistic tips in 7mm-08(140gr), 300WinMag(180gr), and .35 Whelen(225gr). I also would start a beginner with a typical deer cartridge with a minimum weight of 120grains.

My $0.02 worth.

 

[FOUR NOTCH HUNTER]

Ballistic Tips

I work For Georgia Arms and we have been manufacturing the Nosler Ballistic Tip longer than any ammo Manufacturer. I personally shoot the ballistic tip and have never had a problem with them. Shot placement is everything! I have harvested over 50 Whitetails in Georgia with the ballistic tip. One of the guys here at the shop went to Africa and took Kudu, Zebra, Leopard and plains game with one shot kills on all of them with the 180 grain 30 caliber.

I talk to alot of people at gun shows you have people who love them and others that hate them. The fact is the ballistic tip is a great bullet. It shoots flatter because of it's better aerodynamic profile. It is accurate because it is designed as a boat tail hollow point. It expands more rapidly because the polycarbonate tip pushes into the hollow point on impact. It will not deform in the magazine like a conventional lead tip because of the hard polycarbonate nose which protects the aerodynamic profile. The bullet gives you a controlled expansion at any velocities.

I hear people say that they explode on impact that is simply not true they expand. You get 75% to 85% weight retention it the ballistic tip. The Varmint bullets have thin tapered jackets for more rapid expansion so the fragment quicker. The weight retention in the varmit rounds would be less.

Nosler has just come out with the new Accubond which is a bonded ballistic tip which is the best of both worlds. The core is bonded to the jacket so it give you more weight retention 90%-95%. I believe they are really going to be good because you get everything from the Ballistic tip with a bonded bullet

FOUR NOTCH HUNTER

 

[Trizey]

I've been using the 168 gr. Win. Supreme BT's in a 30/06 for the last 2 years and have not had any problem with recovering deer.

Out of 6 deer being shot with the BT's, only one of them made it to 20 yards. In fact 5 of them dropped in their tracks. The only one to make it to 20 yards was an 7 1/2-8 1/2 year old doe. 3 of the 5 that dropped were bucks.
Best I can remember only one deer had an exit hole. So far, I have had no reason to even look for a blood trail.

I will continue to use them until they fail me.

 

[Buzz]

IMO - The 115g .257 Ballistic Tip is the smallest BT I have any confidence in as a hunting bullet. I've not used the 120g .264 bullets so I cannot comment on it. I have found any of the .224 and .243 Ballistic tips to be downright explosive and the 100g .257 more of the same. The 130g .277, 150g .277, 165g .308, 180g .308, and 180g .323 bullets are excellent hunting bullets.

I think Ballistic Tips are somewhat misunderstood and often misused. They are not designed to be fired at 3500 fps from a .300 Earsplittenloudenboomer for woods hunting ranges. I find them to be most useful with a muzzle velocity between 2700 and 3000 fps. In most cases, I choose to use the heavier bullet weights for the caliber they are used in. I do think they are a poor choice when there is a less than perfect shot angle and that does mean they are less flexible than some tougher bullets like the Barnes Triple Shock, Nosler Partition, etc.

I don't really find Ballistic Tips to kill deer any quicker or more impressive than just about any other spitzer bullet out there. Most rifles shoot them very well, but then again Hornady Interlocks at $13 for 100 kill deer just as dead, are also very accurate, and seem to have less occurrences of unexplained bullet failure.

 

[Rob62]

What I'm sure is obvious by now is that some ballistic tip (polymer tip) bullets are designed to be used on varmints and some on big game.

This can confuse the issue because many people have rightfully heard of "Ballistic Tips" breaking up and not penetrating a big game animal. In these cases I'm sure that the type of ballistic tip in question was one designed to be used on varmints/small game.

With so many companies now making polymer tip bullets things aren't about to get any better in the confusion. If in doubt its always best to call the bullet manufacturer at their toll free number (most have them) and ask about what the speciffic bullet was designed to be used for.

Manufacturers have always been very helpfull when I call them with questions.

FWIW - the transition for ballistic tip varmint vs. big game bullet is somewhere around an 85 grain .243 dia bullet. But there are exceptions!

I've had great results with .30 cal. 165 grain ballistic tips large game.

IMO - The Nosler Ballistic Tip is an exceptional bullet. It is one of the most accurate I have shot out of my long gone Rem 700 VS in .308, as accurate as any of the 168 grain Sierra Match Kings that I also used.

Good Huntin'

Rob

 

[WildBuck]

Well since i reload .243 & .270 and have sucessfully taken several deer with both calibers using nosler ballastic tips and have yet to loose my first deer or have one to run over 30 yards i would have to say i am very well pleased with ballastic tips. It only stands to reason as stated in previous post they are more accurate which in turn lets shot placement be more accurate which equals dead deer. Now do not get me wrong here , i have used other brands and types in the past and have killed deer with them but i have also had some bad results with them .That is one reason i reload my own , I will have no one to blame but me. I have not lost a deer since i started reloading. ( i also use sierra spitzer boattails in both calibers also with great results ).I think the key to killing any deer is (as you will all agree is shot placement) but i also think the state of mind (or body ) the deer is in makes a difference also. If the deer is keyed up or the adrenalin is flowing i think (Just my .02 ) they will run a longer distance . Back to the bullet thing, every deer that i have shot in the boiler room the chest cavity was devastated when i dressed them out. I do not think you could ask fore more than that from any bullet.

 

[popgun]

Nosler BT's

I have shot several deer with the 7mm-08 and 140 Nosler Ballistic Tips. All were well placed shots and all were not satisfactory kills. A few were pass through's but most did not exit. I don't mind them not exiting because that simply means it expended all of its destructive power inside the animal. But the big thing was that they just did not go down and all needed some serious tracking. I know that the caliber is sufficient for quick clean kills so my plan is to go to the Nosler Partition for this rifle and weight bullet.