Bear hunting...while you still can.

[NCHillbilly]

I do indeed have a biology degree but it’s just that, a degree. Doesn’t mean much. The knowledge of bear home ranges was initially discovered by Benjamin Kilham but has now been proven to be true including a recent dna analysis study in the Ozarks.

Here is what is also true: GA is not NC or anywhere else. Our bears exist in a relatively tiny little portion of the state and I know people here seem to think they are walking in big bad wilderness but our non roaded areas are tiny. If you dropped me blindfolded into the worst of it, there is nowhere that I couldnt be to a road by dark.

And people here are all seeming to forget that hound hunters in NC, through god knows what amount of political pressure, ended still hunting for bears so they could have it all for themselves. So, let’s not pretend like this group has a history of protecting the rights of other hunter groups. In reality THEY have shown time and again that hounding is the only thing that matters and forget the rest of us.

I didnt sign on to this forum to debate anyone. It’s a futile exercise. I only did it because I know DNR watches this site somewhat to gauge public opinion and I want my voice heard. Ill be at every meeting from here on out. Ill continue to write letters and Ill do as much as I can to see that bear populations arent sent back down the tubes and that bowhunters have their place in the mountains that I love.

You all can have your forum back now.

If you would do more reading, and less assuming, you would find that I have indeed voiced my unfavorable opinion about the laws that keep folks from still-hunting bears on public land in NC, and the political lobbying that keeps them in place. I do not, however, subscribe to the us vs. them or we should only hunt my way theories. There is room for all of us, and if we don't stick together, none of us will be hunting.

 

[splatek]

I had one experience with bear doggin. I was backpacking ~2003 and we were deep in the NC mountains (probably Pisgah NF) as that was our favorite area. We saw trucks for dogs and new they were around. We got hit with a nasty storm late afternoon and could see it coming because we were high elevation and it was late Dec or early January. We set camp off trail very haphazardly with the storm popping, 2 tents. Next morning we heard hounds and stuck our head out up to the trail and saw a 70+ yo man who said "yall best stay in them tents we got a bear treed 250 hundred yards away." He was behind the group but 5 minutes later we heard the bang. When breaking camp we realized one of our tents was under a widowmaker, big lesson learned.

I think well managed dog hunting needs to be a thing forever. I would not be a duck hunter were it not for my dog. I love a sport with a working dog. Seeing that old man is seared into my mind and especially the way he said bear it was more like briar without the r..."bair" or "bare" not sure if that is a local thing but I've never heard the word "bear" the same way anywhere.

Man, this made me remember a time my ex-wife and I were hiking, also deep in the NC wilderness. I can't remember exactly what trail we were trying to get to, but the FS rd leading up to the beginning of the trail was washed out and we were riding in her old 90's era Toyota corolla, so we couldn't risk it. WE got out and walked 7 miles on the FS rd, then used a map to get off trail to get to the hiking trail we were looking for. We ended up hiking in something like 9 miles, then hiked another 4 up to a clearing with some amazing views. Then the sun started going down and we thought we should get back to the car before dark. Man, we were smoked; we had each only brought a small water bottle and no snacks and had been hiking in terrain that we had little to no experience or business being on. We were about halfway to the car, so about 6-7 miles away, the sun started to really get low and we all know how the forest changes in that dusk light. No phone GPS and no real GPS, then my ex jumps up in fright only to turn around and see a beaut of a blue tick hound sniffing her hand. She was an old gal and she had a collar, a GPS collar on her, but she kept following us and was super friendly. We'd never encountered a hunting dog and so we wrapped a long sleeve shirt around her collar and guided her down the rd (as if she didn't know the way). Figured we would get her back to the owners (but secretly I wanted to keep her). Then come rolling up behind us on a flat bed toyota tacoma with a dog cage are two hunters. I have to admit, in hindsight her and I both looked at each other visually asking ourselves 1) should we run for our lives and 2) do we hear banjo music...? But those two bear-dog hunters were the nicest fellas. They mentioned seeing our car on the way up and wondering how far we'd come. They said their hunt was over for the night and that old Blue's collar wasn't working so they were happy we found here. They also let us know they'd be happy to drive us back to the car, pretty much insisted on it, but we'd have to sit atop the dog cage.... WE both agreed. Then as soon as we got up there the driver said, "catch" and tossed me two bud lights! To this day, my ex and I joke that those two bud lights were the best dang beers we've ever drank. When we finally got down to her car, we chatted for about half hour about dog-bear hunting, the tradition, and family - that conversation will never be forgotten, becaus the one guy started talking about having three daughters. Young girls and he was showing us how he let them paint his toe nails. In hindsight, I wish I'd made better friends with those guys, but I was smoked from the hike.

 

[Sautee Ridgerunner]

Clearly that fancy degree didn’t teach you the difference between actual science and pseudoscience.

I’ve heard and read about Kilham. He’s not a scientist or even a biologist. Just a wildlife rehabilitator. He does come off as somewhat anti bear hunting though.

Nice try buddy.

He has spent more time with black bears in the wild than any man on the planet and gotten to watch their social structures develop firsthand. Everything written in his books have been backed up by wildlife biologists “piggie backing” off his research. He is as far from an anti as they come. In fact he’s a gunsmith by trade. But just like you passed immediate judgement on Jerry Russell without any true knowledge of the man, you do the same again. Shocking......

 

[NCHillbilly]

He has spent more time with black bears in the wild than any man on the planet and gotten to watch their social structures develop firsthand. Everything written in his books have been backed up by wildlife biologists “piggie backing” off his research. He is as far from an anti as they come. In fact he’s a gunsmith by trade. But just like you passed immediate judgement on Jerry Russell without any true knowledge of the man, you do the same again. Shocking......

Jerry Russell brought his judgement on himself by his condescending attitude. If he had expressed his opinion in a rational manner, and acknowledged other's opinions, which are just as valid as his; without including his obvious dislike and disdain for local hicks into it, he would have gotten a very different reception. When you arrive with a strong Us vs. Them attitude on display, don't expect Them to agree with you.

BTW, Timothy Treadwell spent a lot of time with bears and thought he knew all about them. The end of his story shows that maybe he didn't know nearly as much as the thought he did.

 

[Sautee Ridgerunner]

If you would do more reading, and less assuming, you would find that I have indeed voiced my unfavorable opinion about the laws that keep folks from still-hunting bears on public land in NC, and the political lobbying that keeps them in place. I do not, however, subscribe to the us vs. them or we should only hunt my way theories. There is room for all of us, and if we don't stick together, none of us will be hunting.

How did that logic work out for your home state?

 

[Sautee Ridgerunner]

Jerry Russell brought his judgement on himself by his condescending attitude. If he had expressed his opinion in a rational manner, and acknowledged other's opinions, which are just as valid as his; without including his obvious dislike and disdain for local hicks into it, he would have gotten a very different reception. When you arrive with a strong Us vs. Them attitude on display, don't expect Them to agree with you.

BTW, Timothy Treadwell spent a lot of time with bears and thought he knew all about them. The end of his story shows that maybe he didn't know nearly as much as the thought he did.

Id suggest you read his books before lumping him in with an unstable maniac.

 

[NCHillbilly]

Id suggest you read his books before lumping him in with an unstable maniac.

I have read one of his books, actually, and have seen a documentary about him, also. He probably knows a good bit about bears, but he tends to anthropomorphise them to an extent, and I also think he is changing parts of their natural behavior by familiarizing them to human contact. Bears here in the GSMNP and in urban areas like Asheville that are human-imprinted act nothing like the wild bears in the national forest in many ways.

 

[Sautee Ridgerunner]

Again, I have no interest in debating a bunch of strangers online. Honestly, I dont have the time to even hardly glance at this forum, but I wanted to at least give the alternate opinion because it is nearly entirely one-sided here.

I joined simply to do that. There are five or six people in this thread who probably see me or my truck on a real regular basis. Happy to speak on it in person.

 

[NGA44]

He has spent more time with black bears in the wild than any man on the planet and gotten to watch their social structures develop firsthand. Everything written in his books have been backed up by wildlife biologists “piggie backing” off his research. He is as far from an anti as they come. In fact he’s a gunsmith by trade. But just like you passed immediate judgement on Jerry Russell without any true knowledge of the man, you do the same again. Shocking......

Still pseudoscience. Hand raised bears aren’t wild bears, therefore the research cannot be applied to wild populations. If he has spent as much time as you are saying with bears then they are severely human conditioned specimens, because truly wild bears won’t tolerate human disturbance. It’s really quite simple.

 

[spurrs and racks]

Increasing population of Atlanta if it has not already, will become your biggest problem to sustain a hunt able bear population.

They do not relocate trapped bears anymore.

 

[SouthGa Fisher]

Personally, I hope they strike a balance between all hunters. I shoot a bow, I shoot rifles, I shoot shotguns. We all deserve a shot. But as we've seen in this and the other thread, they will never make every single hunter happy. That's for BOTH sides...

On a side note, I'm down from Nicodemus' area but I moved up to North Georgia a few years ago. My dad used to talk about how everybody used to drop the dogs out on deer down there, grew up with deer dogs, bird dogs, coon dogs, all hunting dogs. It was always a good time.

I can only imagine what they sound like echoing through the mountains...

Maybe one day.

 

[Heath]

Personally, I hope they strike a balance between all hunters. I shoot a bow, I shoot rifles, I shoot shotguns. We all deserve a shot. But as we've seen in this and the other thread, they will never make every single hunter happy. That's for BOTH sides...

On a side note, I'm down from Nicodemus' area but I moved up to North Georgia a few years ago. My dad used to talk about how everybody used to drop the dogs out on deer down there, grew up with deer dogs, bird dogs, coon dogs, all hunting dogs. It was always a good time.

I can only imagine what they sound like echoing through the mountains...

Maybe one day.

That’s great, welcome home! We’ve had some great discussions the past couple weeks on this forum and there’s been lots of tail fanning and posturing. Overall, there seems to be quite a few good guys and people who generally care about all wildlife and would like to see it and all peoples desired methods thrive. Jerry was jumped on by everyone for insulting us and Sautee is getting more of the same because these two are not up front with their intentions. We all read between the lines and figure them out quickly because they use the same Ol’ tactics that all anti-hound, anti-hunting, anti-fact, and anti-human liberal arts degree biologists use! Luckily, we are in a time where we have sound non bias biologists who are trying to figure out just what needs to be done for the betterment of wildlife and not because the granola people want to hug a tree. Enjoy this beautiful country and murder a few bear as they say!

 

[ddd-shooter]

Anyone want to bet that there will still be fewer bears killed this year than last year across all F.S lands?
No one was screaming last year when we took almost 200 more than the previous year...

 

[Heath]

Increasing population of Atlanta if it has not already, will become your biggest problem to sustain a hunt able bear population.

They do not relocate trapped bears anymore.

That’s false sir, wildlife techs ran traps and relocated bear all summer again this year. They should have euthanized them but another topic for another day.

 

[Buckman18]

That’s false sir, wildlife techs ran traps and relocated bear all summer again this year. They should have euthanized them but another topic for another day.

This is correct.

 

[JustUs4All]

Again, I have no interest in debating a bunch of strangers online. Honestly, I dont have the time to even hardly glance at this forum, but I wanted to at least give the alternate opinion because it is nearly entirely one-sided here.

Why jump into a debate with a bunch of strangers online if you have no time?

How did you develop an interest in the discussion if you have no time to even hardly glance at this forum.

Why would it matter to you that there were a one-sided discussion going on?

So many questions.

 

[Heath]

Anyone want to bet that there will still be fewer bears killed this year than last year across all F.S lands?
No one was screaming last year when we took almost 200 more than the previous year...

Because they weren’t taken with dogs. 61 is not even a huge upswing in numbers and the DNR and Biologists don’t even bat an eye at that little of impact. Two people in general have responded with their heartfelt remorse for the decimation of bears as we know them. Neither use science or fact in their editorials, but emotion and opinion. Then we jump. Next, they tell us how much better they are and how superior their way of thinking is. Then they take their ball and run because they are above debating ignorant people. Or in Jerry’s case phone a friend who is an administrator to try and remove any opposition he may have. It’s classic.

 

[Raylander]

That’s false sir, wildlife techs ran traps and relocated bear all summer again this year. They should have euthanized them but another topic for another day.

I’ll back this up. I’ve seen empty traps where they’ve been set free..

 

[Heath]

Why jump into a debate with a bunch of strangers online if you have no time?

How did you develop an interest in the discussion if you have no time to even hardly glance at this forum.

Why would it matter to you that there were a one-sided discussion going on?

So many questions.

Did you read his avatar? Sautee.... should tell you everything you need to know!

 

[spurrs and racks]

https://bigcanoenews.com/news/news-...ance-bears-to-be-trapped-killed-not-relocated

"DNR: Big Canoe nuisance bears to be trapped, killed—not relocated. The bear issue in Big Canoe has become so serious this year the Department of Natural Resources will no longer relocate nuisance bears. They will trap and kill them.Jul 31, 2013 "

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/plan-to-deal-with-nuisance-bears-draws-fire/792096322