Welcome Guest!
Are You Drinking Too Much?
- Thread starter LittleDrummerBoy
- Start date
brian lancaster
Senior Member
I know I wouldnt want to try to witness to a lost person with the smell of alcohol on my breath
LittleDrummerBoy
Senior Member
Yet there was no contradiction in the Apostle Paul telling Timothy both to "use a little wine" and "do the work of an evangelist" (not necessarily at the same time).
If I happened to have a little wine (communion or otherwise), it wouldn't stop me if shortly thereafter I had an opportunity to share the gospel.
Otherwise, we end up with strange legalisms something like, "Better not celebrate at your daughter's wedding with a glass of wine. You might have a chance to share Jesus with a lost relative later in the evening."
I trust the Holy Spirit to convict of "sin, righteousness, and judgement" when I share the gospel. Having a glass of wine does not hit the "off" button on the Holy Spirit's work. God's word does not return void from his servants' mouths because of a glass of wine.
"Whoops, I just has some communion wine. Hit the pause button on the Great Commission for a while." Silliness!
Spotlite
Resident Homesteader
Is your question in the OP about “too much” drink, or as in your last post where I’m assuming some responsibility / moderation / or for sickness is used? (A glass at daughters wedding, , communion, Timothy)
LittleDrummerBoy
Senior Member
Some Pharisees misrepresent the Biblical position as a ban on alcohol and attempt to impose this legalism on other Christians and shame those who drink in moderation.
If you've watched the video, you'll quickly see that is not my point at all. Quoting the script:
I am not a tea totaler. The Bible does not describe any and all alcohol use as sin. The problem is with excess and absence of moderation. Jesus turned water into wine. Paul instructed Timothy to use a little wine. The Old Testament has both positive examples of the use of wine in moderation and negative examples of use in excess. Even when God is allowing plagues in the book of Revelation, the instruction is given, “Do not damage the oil and the wine.” Scripture says, “Do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink” and Jesus declared all foods to be “clean.” Alcohol in moderation is not a sin. But we do well to recognize that “Wine is a mocker and beer a brawler; whoever is lead astray by them is not wise.” Since Scripture tells us to judge ourselves according to Scripture, I offer these Biblical principles of moderation for your prayerful consideration.
Most of the video discusses the principles of moderation for determining what is "too much." I've discussed those before in various contexts - food, drugs, drinking, fishing. So far, no one has really objected to the principles themselves - from a societal, family, or Biblical viewpoint. The objections come when their sacred cows are skewered. For some, the sacred cow is the overindulgence. For others, their sacred cow is their legalism:
“Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence. - Colossians 2:21-23
Spotlite
Resident Homesteader
Too much is going to be an individual issue. That being said, I agree with the quote below. Except that I won’t care to discuss politics, religion or family with anyone smelling like a bottle. I will fish with them, though.
SemperFiDawg
Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
Speaking from experience here. The argument "alcohol in moderation is not a sin" is missing the point entirely. There's a higher standard that is to be applied, and that standard is this: "Does the decision to do "x" have even the slightest potential to negatively impact my spiritual walk with God?" THAT'S the standard we are to apply. Arguing whether or not action "x" is a sin focuses on the ACTION. It's the same tactic the serpent used with Eve: focus on the action “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat....?" But notice, the desire preceded the action because a change in will/desire must always precede an action. Notice the change in will: "When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she (then) took some and ate it."
The sin isn't in the action, the act only consummates the sin. By the time the action has taken place the sin has already been committed. It's very clear here: "But I tell you, everyone who looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." because sin, at heart, is a selfish act, in that we forsake God's will and pursue ours. The decision to do that in regards to ANYTHING is sin. Knowing that alcohol has the potential to destroy you, not to mention your spiritual walk with God, and then choosing to drink is a sin before you ever put that drink to your lips, and that again, applies to anything in life.
The sin isn't in the action, the act only consummates the sin. By the time the action has taken place the sin has already been committed. It's very clear here: "But I tell you, everyone who looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." because sin, at heart, is a selfish act, in that we forsake God's will and pursue ours. The decision to do that in regards to ANYTHING is sin. Knowing that alcohol has the potential to destroy you, not to mention your spiritual walk with God, and then choosing to drink is a sin before you ever put that drink to your lips, and that again, applies to anything in life.
Last edited:
brian lancaster
Senior Member
Well said and I totally agree
jrickman
Senior Member
In the interest of complete transparency, I do drink but not to the point of impairing my judgement, so my opinion might be colored by my own choices.
I think with many things, the responsibility lies with the individual to know their own weaknesses. My having a few beers and sipping a little scotch doesn't cause my flesh to rise up and overpower me, but it might cause others to lose control entirely. Likewise, I have my own issues where if my spirit gives and inch, my flesh will take a mile. One must know themselves and run like mad from situations they know will cause them to lose themselves.
I think with many things, the responsibility lies with the individual to know their own weaknesses. My having a few beers and sipping a little scotch doesn't cause my flesh to rise up and overpower me, but it might cause others to lose control entirely. Likewise, I have my own issues where if my spirit gives and inch, my flesh will take a mile. One must know themselves and run like mad from situations they know will cause them to lose themselves.
LittleDrummerBoy
Senior Member
Then he [Jesus] told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.”
They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”
What Jesus did here in Cana of Galilee was the first of the signs through which he revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him.
John 2:8-11
They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”
What Jesus did here in Cana of Galilee was the first of the signs through which he revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him.
John 2:8-11
SemperFiDawg
Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
Again. Misses the point and emphasizes it at the same time. Jesus did not have to worry about being in the will of God as he was God.
The miracle was the first to confirm that. You and I???? Not so much. When you can turn water into wine, get back with me.
LittleDrummerBoy
Senior Member
You think Jesus was going to drink all that wine by himself?
Of course not, Jesus provided the wine for the wedding guests to drink. It was in the will of God for the guests at the wedding to drink that wine.
He would not have done that if drinking wine was a sin or the result of sinful thinking.
Scripture says, "Let no man judge you by what you eat or drink." A man need not turn water into wine to know we can drink in moderation with a clear conscience. A man only need to acknowledge that "all things God created are good, and nothing is to be rejected if it received with thanksgiving."
willie1971
Senior Member
yep. about the only thing that hasn't ever let me down is a 6 pack. honestly can't think of anything else for that matter
SemperFiDawg
Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
What exactly IS moderation. Almost every person's I know or have ever known, definition of moderation goes 1,2,10. Almost every alcoholic I have ever met started drinking "in moderation". Forty three percent of people who drink at any given time drink excessively and clinically could be considered alcoholics. You have to figure the other 57 percent will progress. Alcoholism IS progressive after all . Nobody starts out an alcoholic. By the time they realize they have a problem they can't stop. Said in another way, everyone considers their drinking "moderate" until they realize they can't stop at which point it's a major problem, so your definition of "drink in moderation" leaves a little to be desired.
Back to the point. Choosing to indulge in anything that has the ability to destroy your spiritual walk with God is a sin. I find it a bit shocking a Christian would argue there is an exception to this, much less one who considers himself a teacher.
Just got a text after finishing this, but before posting it that a good friend of mine's son who was in his early 20's just died from a drug overdose. His drinking started moderate before it led to drugs. My friend, his father; his drinking started out as moderate too. He got help before it was too late for him, but apparently not his son. His last text to me yesterday was filled with guilt. The family had been told there was no brain activity. What do you think he would say to your "moderate drinking is OK" slogan right now? It's thinking like this that leads to this destruction yet people keep spouting it. It's akin to watching people play Russian Roulette with 5 bullets in the revolver and coming to the conclusion that it's safe because all the survivors are healthy....so far. But what do I know? Maybe self-destruction isn't a sin either. I gotta quit, before I say something I will regret. I'm out.
brian lancaster
Senior Member
you are absolutely correct and thank you for taking the time to post. This country will go to any and all means to justify alcohol as i once did and ive never seen one positive or Godly thing come from it
LittleDrummerBoy
Senior Member
The video explains how the individual can know what moderation is and isn't in some detail.
One would be acting quite the fool to have written many paragraphs in this discussion without watching it.
One would be acting quite the fool to have written many paragraphs in this discussion without watching it.
SemperFiDawg
Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
I'll certainly be the first to call myself a fool, just not enough to deny the truth today.
Even though subtle, that is still a personal attack. Be mindful of your words.
strothershwacker
Senior Member
Legalism is like alcoholism. Both are hard for folks to give up.
brian lancaster
Senior Member
why would you even get on here and try to justify drinking. Because i think in your heart you know its a stumbling blocck for people and if you told the truth you know you shouldnt be doin it as you say that you are a leader of men. i personally wouldnt ever sit and listen to nothing you had to say
