Is this the Atheists/Agnostics/Apologetics section

[bullethead]

Yep proving God or a god exists is just the first step. Its a great start but
then you have to prove the god is what men claim it to be, has done, will do, etc. etc.
Proving God or a god exists only proves just that, not the story that goes along with it.

Like they always say "That first step is a DOOZIE"

 

[Ray357]

You are making assertions. Anyone can literally say anything. The next step is to back up such statements with proof which turns what you assert into fact.
When you admit that you cannot prove anything that you say is anything other than wishful thinking, indoctrination, and a feeling or belief then you are not spreading the word you are telling tall tales.
If something is the Ultimate Truth why can't anyone show it, prove it or have it agreed upon universally by everyone?
What you are saying is the equivalent of touting your own favorite sports team, athlete, food, vehicle manufacturer, fishing line preferences or dog breed and telling everyone else that what you like or use is "the best" and you provide no proof other than just saying it. Cases could be made about the things mentioned above and examples of each could be provided along with evidence in order to make a good argument as to why one may or may not be the best.
But, when someone wants to talk god(s) , Extraordinary claims require Extraordinary evidence and all anyone has to do to put the argument to rest is to back up what they claim and assert with facts and evidence. It should not be hard to do if in fact it has any truth to it whatsoever.

You are telling us what the color gray smells like and are expecting us to believe what your guess is to be true just because.

I am making the point none of it can be proven, but without an absolute moral basis, there is no morality.

 

[jollyroger]

Man I used to HATE going to Catechism as a kid. Beautiful Saturday morning, all I wanted to do was go fishing, climbing trees, playing in the river etc.
The only thing that made it bearable was all my friends had to go to Catechism too.

Same here lol.

Same reason my son hates it now, he feels like his Saturday has been taken away from him.

He just made his First Confession a few weeks ago, was super nervous but he did fine.

Father Jude Michael is good man, tall and broad with a booming voice but gentle as a lamb, pretty funny too so makes it pretty easy on the kids. He's of the Franciscan Order so his token vow is poverty.

I didn't miss a beat, the day after Confirmation I left the church.

Like I was saying I still attend from time to time more for nostalgic reasons and for my kids' sacraments, but other than that I don't practice anymore.

 

[bullethead]

I am making the point none of it can be proven, but without an absolute moral basis, there is no morality.

There are no absolutes where morals are concerned. Man decides. It is ever changing depending upon uncountable factors.
Humans feel the need to attribute "good" "absolute" "higher authority " to a made up better version of themselves. "God" is what they want or need themselves to be and to use as an excuse as why they are forgiven because they are not.

 

[Spotlite]

I am making the point none of it can be proven, but without an absolute moral basis, there is no morality.

I’m Christian but you gotta realize that religious and non-religious recognize a basis for morality.

Where they don’t agree is where that basis comes from - God or nature? If you say it’s from God, you gotta prove God.

For the record - I believe it’s from God.

 

[Ray357]

I’m Christian but you gotta realize that religious and non-religious recognize a basis for morality.

Where they don’t agree is where that basis comes from - God or nature? If you say it’s from God, you gotta prove God.

For the record - I believe it’s from God.

I do not have to prove God to use Him as the basis for morality.

 

[bullethead]

I do not have to prove God to use Him as the basis for morality.

You can substitute the word Can't in the also.
Now, if you use God's actions within the Bible as your basis for morals....well.....your God has a lot to improve on.

 

[Ray357]

You can substitute the word Can't in the also.
Now, if you use God's actions within the Bible as your basis for morals....well.....your God has a lot to improve on.

God has nothing to improve on. His actions are righteous. His actions are just. The creator is not subject to the judgment by His creation. Aside from that, Who decides any actions are good or bad? He who has the best nuclear weapons with the best delivery system?
Why is anything good?
Why is anything bad?
Who says what is good or bad?

 

[Ray357]

You can substitute the word Can't in the also.
Now, if you use God's actions within the Bible as your basis for morals....well.....your God has a lot to improve on.

You can't disprove Him either.

 

[Danuwoa]

I have participated here in the past and it’s mostly a game of gotcha as far as I’m concerned. It only takes a few posts to get you to “you can’t prove that God exists.” That’s right. Sure can’t. I believe he does. It’s a matter of faith. But as soon as you say that they spike the football and act like they won the pony or whatever. I’m not going to try to convince anyone of anything. There is no way to do that and they are just going dig in if you try. Whether or not someone believes in God is between them and God. I care but I’m not going to spend time on it. The issue I have with a lot of atheists is they like to brag about the fact that they’re atheists but don’t want you say a word about your being a Christian. That’s a drag. And a lot of them are anything but open minded. Someone who is always running their gator about how open minded they are causes me to be as suspicious as someone who talks about how honest they are. I’ll have these conversations with a friend who wants to have them. But even then I’m not starting the conversation and as far as having them with people on the internet, no thanks. If you think this place is on life support there are some real obvious reasons as to why.

 

[bullethead]

God has nothing to improve on. His actions are righteous. His actions are just. The creator is not subject to the judgment by His creation. Aside from that, Who decides any actions are good or bad? He who has the best nuclear weapons with the best delivery system?
Why is anything good?
Why is anything bad?
Who says what is good or bad?

Ray you are acting as if you know your particular god.
What you list above are excuses laid out by clergy that try to make the actions of a homicidal sadistic maniac seem excusable.
You admit that you cannot prove your god and then tell us all about him.
Have you ever had a conversation with god? What does his voice sound like?

 

[Spotlite]

I do not have to prove God to use Him as the basis for morality.

No you don’t have to prove anything to anyone.

 

[bullethead]

You can't disprove Him either.

That burden is not on me.
I cannot disprove anything that is made up in anyone's mind but that in no way shape or form then makes such outlandish concepts true.
I can say that The Creator is a Good Witch and we live in her crystal ball.
Using YOUR criteria you would have to believe me and acknowledge her existence because you could not prove that she didn't exist.

Do you acknowledge the existence of every one of the thousands upon thousands of other gods that have been conjured up in the minds of humans?
If no why not?
Do you walk cautiously at night because Vampires, wherewolves, mean Leprechauns, The Jersey Devil, Bigfoot, the Lockness Monster, and every other fictional creature anyone has made up is out possibly out there since you cannot prove them wrong?
The god you believe in is in the same category as the rest, but somehow even while you admit that the most Truthful being ever to exist cannot be proven, you somehow can speak for its existence. You cannot prove the most provable, yet you credit it for things that you have no evidence of.
I am not saying these things in a mean or negative way. I am pointing out that all you have is your beliefs which are no different than all the other varying beliefs that you do not believe in because those sound preposterous to you and defy logic and lack evidence.
You believe in One less god than I do.

 

[bullethead]

No you don’t have to prove anything to anyone.

Unless you are trying to convince others that what you say is true, then proof is very important. Otherwise, believe as you do, enjoy it but do not try to pass off assertions, claims and feelings as fact.

 

[Spotlite]

Unless you are trying to convince others that what you say is true, then proof is very important. Otherwise, believe as you do, enjoy it but do not try to pass off assertions, claims and feelings as fact.

Yup, exactly. Agreed.

 

[bullethead]

I have participated here in the past and it’s mostly a game of gotcha as far as I’m concerned. It only takes a few posts to get you to “you can’t prove that God exists.” That’s right. Sure can’t. I believe he does. It’s a matter of faith. But as soon as you say that they spike the football and act like they won the pony or whatever. I’m not going to try to convince anyone of anything. There is no way to do that and they are just going dig in if you try. Whether or not someone believes in God is between them and God. I care but I’m not going to spend time on it. The issue I have with a lot of atheists is they like to brag about the fact that they’re atheists but don’t want you say a word about your being a Christian. That’s a drag. And a lot of them are anything but open minded. Someone who is always running their gator about how open minded they are causes me to be as suspicious as someone who talks about how honest they are. I’ll have these conversations with a friend who wants to have them. But even then I’m not starting the conversation and as far as having them with people on the internet, no thanks. If you think this place is on life support there are some real obvious reasons as to why.

Hey as long as someone identifies something else as being real, who needs proof right? That is why thousands upon thousands of gods exist.

If I bragged that I shot the world record whitetail, 500+" inches of typical antler, 597lbs live weight, 8ft long nose to butt, have official certification, pictures and video of it both alive and dead and a full mount in my living room and when asked to prove it my reply is "I don't have to because you cannot prove that what I say is not true", well.....yeah that is life support worthy.

 

[Spotlite]

You can't disprove Him either.

Disprove The Flying Spaghetti Monster.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

 

[Danuwoa]

Hey as long as someone identifies something else as being real, who needs proof right? That is why thousands upon thousands of gods exist.

If I bragged that I shot the world record whitetail, 500+" inches of typical antler, 597lbs live weight, 8ft long nose to butt, have official certification, pictures and video of it both alive and dead and a full mount in my living room and when asked to prove it my reply is "I don't have to because you cannot prove that what I say is not true", well.....yeah that is life support worthy.

I don’t care what you do or don’t do. Don’t be so emotional about this.

 

[Newt2]

And, sometimes you just have to post stuff to get a conversation started.

That's true. I believe I have contributed with this thread as it now has over 60 posts.

 

[bullethead]

I don’t care what you do or don’t do. Don’t be so emotional about this.

This is conversation.
Zero emotion
I like to hear facts based off evidence when someone claims something. Religion or Not