The Master and the Student

Miguel Cervantes

Jedi Master
If you tracked the last couple of games leading up to the shot at the NC game with Saban and Smart you might have recognized a lot of similarities and a couple of strategies that lead to this pairing.

There is no doubt Smart is employing everything he has ever learned under Saban in shaping the Ga Bulldogs. They were virtually indistinguishable in strength and formations. They were so similar that outside of the physicality of a real game, the NC looked like the Spring 'A' day game at Bama.

Here is where the strategy to get there came into play. Saban new good and well that if he brought Tagovailoa in for the game against Auburn two things would happen. #1 - his playmaker would be exposed and Smart could prepare for him. #2 - though Tua played in the Fresno St. game, it wasn't long enough or an important game enough for anyone to profile his ability. #3 - and the most critical. Saban wanted Smart to have every opportunity available to make it to the NC. That being said, if he had employed Tua in the Auburn game he would have most assuredly upped the chances of winning that game pitting Bama against UGA for the SEC Title Game. Saban knew that the chances were good he could plead his strength of schedule case to the committee to get a bid in the final four without beating Auburn and hoped he didn't have to use Tua in the game against Clemson. (one of the most over rated teams in the NCAA for this season) This strategy proved successful and even afforded Saban to go off book in using Payne, a DL, in one of the final TD's in the game to seal the deal, thus further throwing a monkey wrench into the "up the sleeve" potential that Kirby would have to watch out for.

Saban knew Hurts was "too much in his own head" carrying the weight of the win on his own shoulders instead of engaging in basic fundamentals of the QB position over the final five games. He knew Tua didn't have this issue, but didn't want to show his hand in using him too early in the final games of the season. Even when he did finally put him in the second half of the NC game there was always the question of; "Could he handle the pressure?". Fortunately, and mysteriously Mel Tucker didn't put near as much pressure on Tua as he should have. No way to know if Kirby urged him to either. Many times HC's let their team coaches call the plays based on all of the strategizing that has lead up to that moment in time. The rest is history.

The take away is, no matter how long you train under a master of any discipline, you will never have their life long knowledge of how to manipulate the business, the game to your advantage. The good thing is, Kirby is a master study of every moment of a game and is as diligent in watching films as Saban is. Diligent in learning as much as he can about his craft as Saban is, and as diligent in recruiting as Saban is. Under Richt the talent in Georgia went largely unrecruited and under Kirby that has changed drastically, severely cutting down on the pool of candidates from the SE Saban has to draw from.

I don't see the NCAA allowing too many more, if any, opportunities for another all SEC NC Game. There will just be too much backlash from the rest of the nations conferences over this, even though it has happened before in the past. Though Saban may have the upper hand in experience, I believe the Student, Kirby Smart has the upper hand in recruiting talent and just as much knowledge in training them up for giving 110% intensity for the duration of a game, and then some to rise up to what is surely to be a regular meeting of the two teams in the SEC CG, that is until Saban retires. At 66 years old I expect that to be within the next 3 years, and sooner if Ms. Terry has her way. At that point Saban's choices are unlimited, from something as simple as a network commentator, which I can't see. He hates speaking publically, to something more in his wheelhouse of Team consultant to anyone that will hire his services, at which point he actually could be a greater asset to what UGA and Kirby for what great things are to come as Georgia finally get's their shot at building a true, lasting dynasty in College Football.

The pesky, annoying question lingers in the back of everyone's mind as to who will replace Saban. Though Dabo has said he is happy right where he is, would he go? Kirby is the most natural fit for Bama's modus operandi and is making one third the salary that Saban is, but has proven to be just as capable of building and running such a team. Would the dollar figure, if offered to him sway him back to Bama? There will be a lot of speculation over the next couple of years as to who will get tagged and accept that job. My advice to the UGA AD, Alumni and Sponsors is; Step it up. If you want to keep Kirby on home turf for the duration $4mil a year isn't going to cut it in the long run.

Though I am a life long Bama fan, UGA is where my donation money goes. How bout it all of you fans, alumni, sponsors. You willing to put your money where your mouth is to keep Kirby right where he is? To benefit the program, the facilities, the future potential?

Once the Master retires the Student will take his place, either at home, or where he is appreciated and paid the best.
 

treemanjohn

Banned
The Master will win until they're tired of it. He's 11-0 against them. One day he'll let a student step up. Someone will come along and say that Smart knew Tagovailoa was coming in........ They never prepared for it. That was Sabans ace up the sleeve all season. Zero doubts. ONLY Saban pulls a very successful quarterback and replaces his with an unknown kid
 

mamatried

Senior Member
This kind of reminds me of Jimbo Fisher. Saban student. yes. good recruiter. yes. wins a natty. yes well for Kirby not yet. wants more money.yes. bye bye. only difference. Kirbys a Dawg tried and true. Bainbridge boy happy at home.
 

elfiii

Admin
Staff member
Kirbys a Dawg tried and true. Bainbridge boy happy at home.

This. ^ Once he gets that first NC under his belt the school will drop out to keep him. The alumni assn. won't let him go.
 

1eyefishing

...just joking, seriously.
It reminds me of the saying- "I taught him everything he knows, but not everything that I know."
 

SpotandStalk

Senior Member
You seriously think Saban didn't put Tua in against Auburn because he'd rather lose and give Kirby a chance in the Sec championship. Not only that but take a long shot at Bama even making the playoff?


Really?
 

Miguel Cervantes

Jedi Master
You seriously think Saban didn't put Tua in against Auburn because he'd rather lose and give Kirby a chance in the Sec championship. Not only that but take a long shot at Bama even making the playoff?


Really?

He is a strategist, he also respects Kirby and wanted to give him every opportunity to make it to the NC he could. Regardless of who he would have had to play in the final two games putting Tua in at that point would have been a huge mistake in showing his hand. Something most folks underestimate about strategist is just how far ahead they plan and how intricate their though process is. He's gone before the committee several times before to plead his case on getting into the big show, I'm sure he knew he would have to do it again and what his calculated odds were.

You don't get 6 NC's under your belt by just being a good team builder. You have to be a strategic thinker and a business man as well. At least under the current NCAA guidelines for qualifying for the NC Game. When they change it to conference champions only, then that strategy will change as well.
 

SpotandStalk

Senior Member
He is a strategist, he also respects Kirby and wanted to give him every opportunity to make it to the NC he could. Regardless of who he would have had to play in the final two games putting Tua in at that point would have been a huge mistake in showing his hand. Something most folks underestimate about strategist is just how far ahead they plan and how intricate their though process is. He's gone before the committee several times before to plead his case on getting into the big show, I'm sure he knew he would have to do it again and what his calculated odds were.

You don't get 6 NC's under your belt by just being a good team builder. You have to be a strategic thinker and a business man as well. At least under the current NCAA guidelines for qualifying for the NC Game. When they change it to conference champions only, then that strategy will change as well.

I just have a hard time believing he would take a chance at losing a game that could possibly have kept him out of the NCG, just for the sake of strategy. At the time, he had no idea that Uga would beat Auburn, or Osu would beat Wisky. Had Whisky beaten Osu, Bama would have been watching from home.


He's the greatest college coach of all time, but let's be honest, he put Tua in at half out of desperation. He knew he had absolutely no chance of winning with Hurts. Given he made a great, gutsy decision in doing so. Most coaches would've lost that game as they'd not had the guts to make the change.
 

Miguel Cervantes

Jedi Master
I just have a hard time believing he would take a chance at losing a game that could possibly have kept him out of the NCG, just for the sake of strategy. At the time, he had no idea that Uga would beat Auburn, or Osu would beat Wisky. Had Whisky beaten Osu, Bama would have been watching from home.


He's the greatest college coach of all time, but let's be honest, he put Tua in at half out of desperation. He knew he had absolutely no chance of winning with Hurts. Given he made a great, gutsy decision in doing so. Most coaches would've lost that game as they'd not had the guts to make the change.

After both UGA lost to Auburn the first time he had all he needed to know in passing advice along to Kirby on the corrections needed to insure that didn't happen twice. Coaching at the level these guys do is not as happenstance as driving to walmart in advance of an ice storm and hoping they'll have milk and bread left. It starts two years before that when they are laying the schedules out, strategizing who they will play and can most likely beat and when during the season to impose the maximum results in the end to get that shot at the big show.

Lesser coaches most likely don't think that way, or are not as good at strategy and planning, or maybe they are but their execution in coaching up the players may be lacking, but it is clear that these two operate on a level far different than most college coaches, and so much more goes into it than week to week results.
 

elfiii

Admin
Staff member
He's the greatest college coach of all time, but let's be honest, he put Tua in at half out of desperation. He knew he had absolutely no chance of winning with Hurts. Given he made a great, gutsy decision in doing so. Most coaches would've lost that game as they'd not had the guts to make the change.

I wouldn't call it desperation. Desperation is what happens in the 4th qtr. Deep concern happens at half time.

Saban knew he had to shake things up and making the change at QB shook things up. I'm sure his half time reorientation speech motivated them and his coordinators had already talked to their respective players about the adjustments that were going to be made before Saban got a hold of them. If Tagovailoa didn't work Hurts would have been back in there in the twinkling of an eye.

I don't know about the Messican's logic about using Tagovailoa. What I do know is Bama switched the flip in the second half and did what it took to win the game.
 

elfiii

Admin
Staff member
but it is clear that these two operate on a level far different than most college coaches, and so much more goes into it than week to week results.

This much is definitely true.
 

Madsnooker

Senior Member
You seriously think Saban didn't put Tua in against Auburn because he'd rather lose and give Kirby a chance in the Sec championship. Not only that but take a long shot at Bama even making the playoff?


Really?

Only a Bama fan would Say this and ACTUALLY believe it. To believe Saban was OK losing against Auburn (their hated rival), knowing he wouldn't even play in the SEC champ game, and hope the committee would put them in with that joke of a schedule automatically, is just rediculous!!!facepalm::rofl:facepalm::rofl:facepalm: There is no way Saban Assumed the Pups would win the SEC champ game and then their first playoff game to get to the championship. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

I thought I had heard it all!!!:crazy: Miguel, surprised this drivel came from you???? Tell me, what insane bama site did you copy this from?:whip:
 

Miguel Cervantes

Jedi Master
Only a Bama fan would Say this and ACTUALLY believe it. To believe Saban was OK losing against Auburn (their hated rival), knowing he wouldn't even play in the SEC champ game, and hope the committee would put them in with that joke of a schedule automatically, is just rediculous!!!facepalm::rofl:facepalm::rofl:facepalm:

I thought I had heard it all!!!:crazy: Miguel, surprised this drivel came from you???? Tell me, what insane bama site did you copy this from?:whip:

It is actually something that was talked about in strategies weeks before the auburn game. I know it is hard to believe, given the coach and team you have to pull for, but all I can say is, look at the results. Saban got another NC, and that game was most likely the one game he had an idea about, but didn't know if his kids could pull it off. Look at Kirby, he did something that hasn't been done at UGA in decades and I promise you the two were in direct communications on how both would benefit the most from this scenario.

The Master doesn't abandon the Student just because he has given him the opportunity for his own Dojo, that is until it comes down to a competition between the two of them. ;) Would Saban rather see Kirby lose at the SEC level, something that had been done many times before with UGA? or would Saban rather take the chance of losing, but at least get Kirby to the NC level, something that had not happened since most of you were born, and something that would enhance his wallet, win or lose, as a new HC for UGA?

Whether it is business, politics or sports, it is all about maximizing the effect of the end results. Going head to head in the SEC would not have done that.
If that doesn't convince you, not that I care, watch the video of what strength and conditioning coach Scotty Cochran did with the Sugar Bowl trophy. ;)
 

mguthrie

**# 1 Fan**OHIO STATE**
I called Saban a genius,but this is just absurd. He only cares about Bama getting to the Natty and no one else. I'm sure he was rooting for Kirby to do well at his new job but come on. I read in another thread you got the crud. Maybe this is the meds talking. facepalm:
 

Miguel Cervantes

Jedi Master
dogs lost. that all. roll tide

I called Saban a genius,but this is just absurd. He only cares about Bama getting to the Natty and no one else. I'm sure he was rooting for Kirby to do well at his new job but come on. I read in another thread you got the crud. Maybe this is the meds talking. facepalm:

Both of you need to go on a vacation. Maybe mgutherie can visit Matty6 in Calipornia and he can take you down south and teach you how to surf mud slides. :whip:
 

MudDucker

Moderator
Staff member
You seriously think Saban didn't put Tua in against Auburn because he'd rather lose and give Kirby a chance in the Sec championship. Not only that but take a long shot at Bama even making the playoff?


Really?

I can't believe that I agree with you! :hair:
 
They better not because Bama will have Kirby When Saban retires . Georgia has been its own worst enemy when it came to the head coach. No reason for Georgia to not be as good as BAMA. but for some reason the folks in charge just did have the will to get the right man in place. There is no excuse for Georgia to have waited and not been a national champion
 

mguthrie

**# 1 Fan**OHIO STATE**
Both of you need to go on a vacation. Maybe mgutherie can visit Matty6 in Calipornia and he can take you down south and teach you how to surf mud slides. :whip:

You'll never catch me in that god forsakin place. I'd be up for meeting him haf way. In Colorado say. I could get some use outta that sled of yours and give a report to the PF on the condition of folks out ther. :biggrin3:
 

formula1

Daily Bible Verse Organizer
re:

Well, I told my son at halftime that Tua would come in for Hurts. If I knew that (I have zero inside knowledge), Smart most certainly knew.

Tua did not win the game. Dawgs offense went conservative last 12 minutes of the game and it was costly. You can never do that on a Saban coached team!
 
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