When the Messiah returns...

[Israel]

That's a good point.
The "learning curve" of living out the eternal in time. But you will see I have never denied there is one.

Time for learning.

 

[bullethead]

That's a good point.
The "learning curve" of living out the eternal in time. But you will see I have never denied there is one.

Time for learning.

Never denying isn't the issue.
Constantly asserting you know about Eternity, God, Jesus, ...the "Eternity is", "God wants", "Jesus thinks" is where the line is crossed.
It would be different if you could back it up.
I want you to be able to back it up.
But there is never even an attempt.

 

[Israel]

Never denying isn't the issue.
Constantly asserting you know about Eternity, God, Jesus, ...the "Eternity is", "God wants", "Jesus thinks" is where the line is crossed.
It would be different if you could back it up.
I want you to be able to back it up.
But there is never even an attempt.

It would be different if you could back it up.

What exactly would be different?

I don't harbor any illusions that if I presented anything to an excelling I have not achieved, with you or any other, that anything would be different. Or that if somehow I had more than I have, I could make any effectual change or difference.

Firstly, I do not have more than I have, nor could I. But what I do have is a relief from that tumult of striving to justify being in the world as I am. And yes, there was a learning curve there of to whom and what (if there be any owing)...where it is rightly owed. I could bore you far more than I already have with recounting those lessons...though to me they are precious and mark a patience I once sold so short.

Perhaps some lay in being made able to behold myself in those times where I too stood as though with hands on hips saying "Well, I'm still not convinced". Little did I know of how much self convincing had to be seen as opposition and conquered by a stronger before I could be made ready to receive persuasion of another. I don't think I have misrepresented, nor sought to except as might be inferred, that I know myself as one made thus, or might take their stand upon being one more compliant.

I have been forced along the way...even as in those matters to which I seemed so easily to approve. As mentioned elsewhere and previously as attributed to CS Lewis regarding matters of approval:

"Everyone thinks forgiveness is a fine idea until there's something to forgive"

I have only learned by assertion. And what I may have thought I had in form of explanation only came later as consequence. That's why I am not at all deterred by any seeming accusation (for it is correct...but whether it is accusation or just statement of view is to me, moot) of only having assertions; for this is all I have been given to work with. The proving of them, as no less the consequences for them, are entirely beyond my purview.

You see, I am entirely convinced (as entirely as I know anything) of consequence.
Nothing is without significance or meaning to a consequence. Nothing escapes them...consequences. Call them judgments if you care to...and I well understand that to many (even among my brothers) such words as consequences and judgments may hold a negative connotation. For me, they do not.

In speaking of Jesus Christ is this made:

For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.

"counted worthy" is to be adjudged so.

Therefore though the more common form of judgment is more often inferred by most as a determining of lack or fault as in "he was judged for that"...with common inference it is a "negative" thing, it is not at all correct.

And if it seems I am being obtuse to you, so be it. I need God's judgment, not as though I can escape it; but I have learned it is a far more pleasant place to desire a thing inescapable than to be tormented by it. But I have had to let go of a thing I was once so self convinced of, the judgments of man accounting for anything. Especially my own. Particularly my own.

So, yes, you will get little from me (and may God see to its preserving) than the assertion that Jesus is Lord in as many myriad form it may take in responses.


This establishing took place in God entirely apart from my consultation, agreement or approval, and where once I thought necessary explanation by demand, I too had to be frustrated...in order to be dissuaded from false inferences. This immeasurable gift of being allowed...to agree...has held and continues to hold in its grace far more than all of man's accolades can add to, or his opprobrium detract from.

 

[bullethead]

What exactly would be different?

I don't harbor any illusions that if I presented anything to an excelling I have not achieved, with you or any other, that anything would be different. Or that if somehow I had more than I have, I could make any effectual change or difference.

Firstly, I do not have more than I have, nor could I. But what I do have is a relief from that tumult of striving to justify being in the world as I am. And yes, there was a learning curve there of to whom and what (if there be any owing)...where it is rightly owed. I could bore you far more than I already have with recounting those lessons...though to me they are precious and mark a patience I once sold so short.

Perhaps some lay in being made able to behold myself in those times where I too stood as though with hands on hips saying "Well, I'm still not convinced". Little did I know of how much self convincing had to be seen as opposition and conquered by a stronger before I could be made ready to receive persuasion of another. I don't think I have misrepresented, nor sought to except as might be inferred, that I know myself as one made thus, or might take their stand upon being one more compliant.

I have been forced along the way...even as in those matters to which I seemed so easily to approve. As mentioned elsewhere and previously as attributed to CS Lewis regarding matters of approval:

"Everyone thinks forgiveness is a fine idea until there's something to forgive"

I have only learned by assertion. And what I may have thought I had in form of explanation only came later as consequence. That's why I am not at all deterred by any seeming accusation (for it is correct...but whether it is accusation or just statement of view is to me, moot) of only having assertions; for this is all I have been given to work with. The proving of them, as no less the consequences for them, are entirely beyond my purview.

You see, I am entirely convinced (as entirely as I know anything) of consequence.
Nothing is without significance or meaning to a consequence. Nothing escapes them...consequences. Call them judgments if you care to...and I well understand that to many (even among my brothers) such words as consequences and judgments may hold a negative connotation. For me, they do not.

In speaking of Jesus Christ is this made:



"counted worthy" is to be adjudged so.

Therefore though the more common form of judgment is more often inferred by most as a determining of lack or fault as in "he was judged for that"...with common inference it is a "negative" thing, it is not at all correct.

And if it seems I am being obtuse to you, so be it. I need God's judgment, not as though I can escape it; but I have learned it is a far more pleasant place to desire a thing inescapable than to be tormented by it. But I have had to let go of a thing I was once so self convinced of, the judgments of man accounting for anything. Especially my own. Particularly my own.

So, yes, you will get little from me (and may God see to its preserving) than the assertion that Jesus is Lord in as many myriad form it may take in responses.


This establishing took place in God entirely apart from my consultation, agreement or approval, and where once I thought necessary explanation by demand, I too had to be frustrated...in order to be dissuaded from false inferences. This immeasurable gift of being allowed...to agree...has held and continues to hold in its grace far more than all of man's accolades can add to, or his opprobrium detract from.

?

 

[660griz]

...how will Christianity respond?

Phew! We were right.

 

[WaltL1]

Phew! We were right.

Hey Griz, how you doin?

 

[660griz]

Hey Griz, how you doin?

Pretty good. Living the dream. How are yall doing? Working from home for over a year cause of COVID and seem to work more than when I was in the office. I have missed the stimulating conversations.

 

[oldfella1962]

addressing the thread title "when the Messiah returns" here is something that will really make you think:

three years ago my wife had a complete psychotic break - she had to be involuntarily committed to the psych ward for a month. Anyway in the early stages of her breakdown she was getting up out of bed every five minutes or so and going into the rest of the house, then returning to bed. She would toss & turn, trying to sleep, then get out of bed and returning in a minute or so.

I asked her what she was doing, and she said she was checking to see if the refrigerator was still working. I asked her why it wouldn't be working and she said that "Jesus was returning to earth" and when he did he was going to shut down the power grid.

I'm not a biblical scholar but I don't remember hearing about that.

 

[bullethead]

addressing the thread title "when the Messiah returns" here is something that will really make you think:

three years ago my wife had a complete psychotic break - she had to be involuntarily committed to the psych ward for a month. Anyway in the early stages of her breakdown she was getting up out of bed every five minutes or so and going into the rest of the house, then returning to bed. She would toss & turn, trying to sleep, then get out of bed and returning in a minute or so.

I asked her what she was doing, and she said she was checking to see if the refrigerator was still working. I asked her why it wouldn't be working and she said that "Jesus was returning to earth" and when he did he was going to shut down the power grid.

I'm not a biblical scholar but I don't remember hearing about that.

Thanks for sharing.
It seems that in her mind she had information given to her through an experience, a visit by Jesus, or as a result of her own mind convincing herself it was something legitimate and real.
Others who have had similar yet different experiences would scoff at your wife's power grid shutdown scenario as being unrealistic and non biblical while they tout their own as being real.
The mind is powerful.

 

[oldfella1962]

Thanks for sharing.
It seems that in her mind she had information given to her through an experience, a visit by Jesus, or as a result of her own mind convincing herself it was something legitimate and real.
Others who have had similar yet different experiences would scoff at your wife's power grid shutdown scenario as being unrealistic and non biblical while they tout their own as being real.
The mind is powerful.

The mind is powerful but incredibly complicated and thus fragile at times. It's really a small miracle that we aren't all insane homicidal maniacs or drooling idiots. Some amazingly talented, intelligent people sometimes flip out or turn out to be evil & diabolical beasts.

As for Jesus returning and taking out the power grid ( I wouldn't put it past him) I can just imagine somebody screaming at Jesus "OH COME ON! Really dude, right NOW? I just got back from COSTCO and stocked my freezer!"